TimingToEat

Please give Icarus a little love

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3 minutes ago, TimingToEat said:

It's not that Icarus is too good, but that those who use Icarus are experienced players.

Experienced players use Hovers, because they're good.  If they all of a sudden sucked, then they would stop using them.

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14 minutes ago, TimingToEat said:

It's not that Icarus is too good, but that those who use Icarus are experienced players. After more than a dozen versions of weakening, do officials think that Icarus has been more balanced? Not so, Icarus has become too weak compared to other vehicles. Basically no newcomers are willing to try Icarus. Is this a good phenomenon? Give Icarus a little love, who is willing to support this idea?

You know what i notice in battles on some known name players , when they play hovers they do nice scores , when they come to play on ground their score drop a lot , talking about 2k score with hover and 800 score on ground , this to me mean hovers still do ok .

I can agree with more love for hovers if and only if we delete the side way cabin on hover builds , like hovers got in the game since start . 

Edited by RYANCQQPER
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Yeeeah not really... Sure there are some, but if a player is really experienced, would do well with every movement part, and not only with the best one (let's not forget the main reason for that is that all the other ones are being ignored and not getting any significative change tho)

Edited by xCrossFaith
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What is even weirder is when dudes that say that hovers are OP do 0 score with one.

:noob:

 

 

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2 hours ago, TimingToEat said:

It's not that Icarus is too good, but that those who use Icarus are experienced players. After more than a dozen versions of weakening, do officials think that Icarus has been more balanced? Not so, Icarus has become too weak compared to other vehicles. Basically no newcomers are willing to try Icarus. Is this a good phenomenon? Give Icarus a little love, who is willing to support this idea?

I have now started using hovers some but still far from my most used movement method. What I have noticed on PS4 is this: hovers have become more and more rare. I have been playing a 12k PS build and I rarely see more than 1 per team, often times zero. I noticed because i made a hover chaser and i have no one to chase. If i can get my PS up to 15k, I would likely see some more, but it is crazy how few there are outside of the highest tiers.

I hypothesize that the top hover players are using fused hovers with all fused parts. Yes, hovers have unique advantages that make certain weapons more effective. They also have disadvantages. In their current state, they have been nerfed too far. I prefer they have a better chance to combat dogs vs the way it currently is. 

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15 minutes ago, Claysdad said:

I have now started using hovers some but still far from my most used movement method. What I have noticed on PS4 is this: hovers have become more and more rare. I have been playing a 12k PS build and I rarely see more than 1 per team, often times zero. I noticed because i made a hover chaser and i have no one to chase. If i can get my PS up to 15k, I would likely see some more, but it is crazy how few there are outside of the highest tiers.

I hypothesize that the top hover players are using fused hovers with all fused parts. Yes, hovers have unique advantages that make certain weapons more effective. They also have disadvantages. In their current state, they have been nerfed too far. I prefer they have a better chance to combat dogs vs the way it currently is. 

Same on the PC if you want to play vs hovers you need to go to 16k+

Else its all wedges and "bunker" CQC like firedogs/retchers

15 minutes ago, VisceraCleaner said:

And these experienced players still prefer Icarus to other movements. Just try to think why. 

For most is because they don't want to get wedged or wedge.

This has been the main advantage of playing with hovers , to hover over pressw.

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2 hours ago, TimingToEat said:

It's not that Icarus is too good, but that those who use Icarus are experienced players. After more than a dozen versions of weakening, do officials think that Icarus has been more balanced? Not so, Icarus has become too weak compared to other vehicles. Basically no newcomers are willing to try Icarus. Is this a good phenomenon? Give Icarus a little love, who is willing to support this idea?

Icari are poorly balanced, that's for sure. They are simultaneously the most overpowered and underpowered movement part in the game.

 

What makes them OP are the inherent attributes:

  • Resistance/near immunity to flipping, allowing people to create builds which would immediately tip over if you were other movement parts and wield weapons like Typhoons
  • linear acceleration curve, creating speed of acceleration that simply cannot be match with anything at any given weight class
  • High suspension which makes the crafts not work properly in the maps, most cover is designed around lnd vehicles and hovercraft shoot over most of it
  • Incredibly low power drain, only matched by non-st small wheels, which cannot turn nor strafe

 

Want fast acceleration on your vehicle? Drop some wheels or equip lighter and more fragile ones. The hovercraft still out-accelerates you due to linear acceleration curve. Want to be able to flip back fast? Equip carjack which costs one energy meaning you'll drop cloak, engine or a radiator off of your build. The hovercraft still corrects itself faster than you and without button prompts. Want to be able to shoot over cover? Now your craft is huge af, thus an easy target and also more prone to flipping because no immunity to flipping. Icari gets all of this for free and better than anyone else. The only powerful soft-stat in Icari is the low poer drain that only excarberates the issue of ludicriously fast acceleration.

 

What makes them UP are the soft-stats

  • Durability of a medium wheel
  • Durability to mass ratio of a heavy part despite being a medium part
  • Low tonnage per mass resulting in a poor net tonnage

 

Generally speaking Icari have stats of a light part but the stat ratios are that of a heavy part. This flies right in the face of how the entire game is designed and proves the Icari aren't balanced properly.

 

What the Icari need is yet another redesign, with the focus this time being on reworking the underlying features and then giving the part stats which match the part properly. After two redesigns so far it's pretty obvious shuffling the soft-stats around isn't the route to fixing the issues.

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40 minutes ago, Spedemix said:

Want to be able to flip back fast? Equip carjack which costs one energy meaning you'll drop cloak, engine or a radiator off of your build. The hovercraft still corrects itself faster than you and without button prompts.

In fact, Spiders, and Bigrams can just add hovers for tonnage, and Flip Resistance.  Even Tilted Mandrakes, on Meat Grinders with just the tips touching the ground can add Hovers, for Flip Resistance (And use 2 Mandrakes, which takes 16 Energy.  They can't even afford Colossus, a Heavy Cabin, a Radar Detector, nor Chameleon, but because Hovers, they don't need a Carjack.)

40 minutes ago, Spedemix said:

What makes them UP are the soft-stats

  • Durability of a medium wheel
  • Durability to mass ratio of a heavy part despite being a medium part
  • Low tonnage per mass resulting in a poor net tonnage

These are all build challenges, that can be fixed.  Honestly, compared with the Breakdancing Glitch, which can be fixed, by adding Hovers, these don't make them Under-Powered.  Just challenging to build around.  Literally, all you need is Spaced Armor, and all of these are pretty well covered.  Literally.

Edited by psiberzerker
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3 hours ago, Spedemix said:

Want fast acceleration on your vehicle? Drop some wheels or equip lighter and more fragile ones.

Do you know that Icarus VII has only -5% power penalty and Icarus IV has -8% power penalty?

Meanwhile, Studded ST has -10% power penalty.
As long as there are at least 4 ST wheels, wheel vehicle takes heavier power penalty than hover vehicle.
Also, who uses 4 Studded ST wheels in high PS match? Why should we do that instead of using 4 Bigfoot ST?

Of course, Bigfoot ST has -20% power penalty but it is way better than Studded ST, as long as wheel vehicles should take power penalty worse than hovers anyway.

Edited by VisceraCleaner
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2 hours ago, Claysdad said:

I have now started using hovers some but still far from my most used movement method. What I have noticed on PS4 is this: hovers have become more and more rare. I have been playing a 12k PS build and I rarely see more than 1 per team, often times zero. I noticed because i made a hover chaser and i have no one to chase. If i can get my PS up to 15k, I would likely see some more, but it is crazy how few there are outside of the highest tiers.

I hypothesize that the top hover players are using fused hovers with all fused parts. Yes, hovers have unique advantages that make certain weapons more effective. They also have disadvantages. In their current state, they have been nerfed too far. I prefer they have a better chance to combat dogs vs the way it currently is. 

I’m seeing the same thing. 
I had been playing below 9kPS for a few months and assumed that’s why I was seeing so few hovers on PS4, but now that I’ve been playing above 10kPS I’m still not  seeing many.

I saw you playing a big hover recently, and you did really well, but that seems more like the exception.

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4 hours ago, VisceraCleaner said:

And these experienced players still prefer Icarus to other movements. Just try to think why. 

because you probably dont think enogh regarding this. 

experienced players have at least 10 hovers fused together with a lot of other gear; that makes them viable. 

You could read this 1 post above yours; which is a good post from a neutral perspective. Yours is biased bs. 

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32 minutes ago, zengerz66 said:

experienced players have at least 10 hovers fused together with a lot of other gear; that makes them viable. 

If they have enough coins to have 10 upgraded hovers, why they don't upgrade 10 Bigfoots?

You mistake the reason for the result.
'They got 10 upgraded hovers, so they use hover builds' is wrong.
The correct one is 'They use hovers, so they upgraded 10 hovers.'

Edited by VisceraCleaner
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6 hours ago, xCrossFaith said:

Yeeeah not really... Sure there are some, but if a player is really experienced, would do well with every movement part, and not only with the best one (let's not forget the main reason for that is that all the other ones are being ignored and not getting any significative change tho)

What is this biased bs? Try to prove such claims hahahahahaa! 

Most of these hovers players would do well with every movement part; you need a brain to use hovers which you can use for every other movement part. 
I dont care what ride I have, I will slap with everything or even beat you in your own build :lol:

Hovers in their current state arent that much of a challange to take down; I wonder why so many people fail at this.... Probably the same reason many of your are killed so easily :yes_yes_yes:

 

3 hours ago, Spedemix said:

Icari are poorly balanced, that's for sure. They are simultaneously the most overpowered and underpowered movement part in the game.

 

What makes them OP are the inherent attributes:

  • Resistance/near immunity to flipping, allowing people to create builds which would immediately tip over if you were other movement parts and wield weapons like Typhoons
  • linear acceleration curve, creating speed of acceleration that simply cannot be match with anything at any given weight class
  • High suspension which makes the crafts not work properly in the maps, most cover is designed around lnd vehicles and hovercraft shoot over most of it
  • Incredibly low power drain, only matched by non-st small wheels, which cannot turn nor strafe

 

Want fast acceleration on your vehicle? Drop some wheels or equip lighter and more fragile ones. The hovercraft still out-accelerates you due to linear acceleration curve. Want to be able to flip back fast? Equip carjack which costs one energy meaning you'll drop cloak, engine or a radiator off of your build. The hovercraft still corrects itself faster than you and without button prompts. Want to be able to shoot over cover? Now your craft is huge af, thus an easy target and also more prone to flipping because no immunity to flipping. Icari gets all of this for free and better than anyone else. The only powerful soft-stat in Icari is the low poer drain that only excarberates the issue of ludicriously fast acceleration.

 

What makes them UP are the soft-stats

  • Durability of a medium wheel
  • Durability to mass ratio of a heavy part despite being a medium part
  • Low tonnage per mass resulting in a poor net tonnage

 

Generally speaking Icari have stats of a light part but the stat ratios are that of a heavy part. This flies right in the face of how the entire game is designed and proves the Icari aren't balanced properly.

 

What the Icari need is yet another redesign, with the focus this time being on reworking the underlying features and then giving the part stats which match the part properly. After two redesigns so far it's pretty obvious shuffling the soft-stats around isn't the route to fixing the issues.

big biased bs post againt; why do you always jump on these kind of topics as a hover hater? You got so many things wrong as a vetaran player; its kind of weird and nobody can let someone make such biased incorrect claims! 

"linear acceleration curve, creating speed of acceleration that simply cannot be match with anything at any given weight class" 
- dont compare power fused hovers vs standard builds... if you are experienced and a good player you know a good dogbuild can easily keep up driving under a hover constantly doing damage anooying the s... out of a powr fused harpy hover. Those harpy hovers are around 10k weight, same as dogbuilds. Dont compare nonsense next time.

"High suspension which makes the crafts not work properly in the maps, most cover is designed around lnd vehicles and hovercraft shoot over most of it"
- its not that you cannot build other builds a bit higher if you want to shoot over cover isnt it? Normally people use the horizontal mandrake to shoot from behind cover at someone in cover... 

"Incredibly low power drain, only matched by non-st small wheels, which cannot turn nor strafe"
- that low power drain doesnt mean anything whenyou compare the circle strafe acceleration towards bigger and heavier spiders who change direction more quickly than hovers that weight a bit less than them. Compare the spider power drain and calculate; then look ingame that those numbers dont even add up; so wtf are you talking about? Still hating on hovers while not even up-to-date in knowledge. Stop the old hate because you cant even back it up. 

But its understandable you dont know these simple things; you dont even play the game dont you? 

 

 

2 hours ago, VisceraCleaner said:

Do you know that Icarus VII has only -5% power penalty and Icarus IV has -8% power penalty?

Meanwhile, Studded ST has -10% power penalty. As long as there are at least 4 ST wheels, wheel vehicle takes heavier power penalty than hover vehicle.
Also, who uses 4 ST Studded wheel in high PS match? Why should we do that instead of using 4 Bigfoot ST?

Of course, Bigfoot ST has -20% power penalty but it is way better than Studded ST, as long as wheel vehicles should take power penalty worse than hovers anyway.

Dont use numbers that dont even add up with the actual outcome ingame like mentioned above using spiders as example and they can do the same circle movement to compare. Dont talk if you lack the experience.


So is everyone done now with hating on hovers? Because all of you like to complain without bringing up any proper evidence at all. If you want to cryhard about hovers then make sure you bring up valid points regarding them. Dont bring up numbers when you cant prove the same in the actual game itself. IF you want to look at those numbers, a spider at the same weight should be half as fast in circle strafing as a hover; but it is way faster than that. I think you people like to forget about the 25% reduction in turning speed over hovers a while back making them feel laggy when you use standard hovers. 
Also with a top speed which is 45kmph higher than hovers; I dont think it is fair to be wanting to have the same acceleration even though you can perfectly make this possible if you have a brain. 
Hovers are op is just pathetic to say after all these nerfs and even the soft nerfs on modules/engines; look at the costs to even make them viable; so op hahahaha pfffffffff. Also hovers are usable for experienced players and at the same time easy to kill for those same players, that is why you dont see those players cry all the time without bringing up any good grounded arguments etc and those players just mantain the intelligence to remain NEUTRAL looking at these matters. 

Give a regular player a hover and you will see them bumping all over the place :014j:

 

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14 minutes ago, VisceraCleaner said:

If they have enough coins to have 10 upgraded hovers, why they don't upgrade 10 Bigfoots?

You mistake the reason for the result.
'They got 10 upgraded hovers, so they use hover builds' is wrong.
The correct one is 'They use hovers, so they upgraded 10 hovers.'

Why do you even keep replying bs? Stop hating on hovers when you are unable to provide rational reasoning or proof regarding your claims. 
Tell me where I made a mistake; I think you are making the stupid claims you cannot even back up; that is a huge mistake in my opinion. Your blind emotional hate makes you unable to read my post properly and do a simple 1 + 1. You are so blind you even cherrypick pieces of sentence and bring up your own static claims which dont even add up in the dynamics/possibilites of reality itself. You even render your own statements useless!!!!! :014j:

I fused my bigfoots way before trying to fuse hovers, got plenty of them. Also the reason I can make claims speaking about being able to keep up with hovers having this experience and being able to do it over and over again :lol:

I told you they have fused hovers and many other stuff; THAT makes them viable compared to other builds. Also when people invested in some gear why should they immediatly drop it without trying to get used to their nerfed hovers? Not everyone is a cryhard quiter/complainer/loser. Winners adapt.

you are talking about enough coins at the beginning and you end up with the opposite. If you have enough coins, you fuse everything; not just hovers. And if you would be skilled or smart enough to use hovers or maybe be good enough to cap uranium in diamond; you would probably want to fuse them also :p:

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3 minutes ago, VisceraCleaner said:

Wait a minute. @Claysdad and @poony4u2 are obviously PS4 users.

Hey, @zengerz66. Are you also PS4 user? Not PC player?

 

Oh, xuck. This again.

Do you want to continue in trying to make claims you cannot back up with rational intelligence? 
bringing up emotional bias again? 

I play ps4, but have an account on pc for certain things to check. What do you want to bring up? The superior steering capabilities on consoles or how we can drive our hovers easier than on pc? And thinking about the aiming on pc, sure if we talk about mg's or shotguns; but taking into account the more dynamic steering capabilities on consoles this pc advantage in aiming gets useless speaking of limited angle guns on spiders/hovers etc. This is a more a predicting game than a reacting game so I wonder what would be your point this time :lol:

Funny how you try to escape to this route when I mentioned above that some intelligent people have the ability to remain NEUTRAL :014j:

 

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3 hours ago, poony4u2 said:

I saw you playing a big hover recently, and you did really well, but that seems more like the exception.

Yeah, I normally do worse with it. Haha

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8 hours ago, TimingToEat said:

It's not that Icarus is too good, but that those who use Icarus are experienced players. After more than a dozen versions of weakening, do officials think that Icarus has been more balanced? Not so, Icarus has become too weak compared to other vehicles. Basically no newcomers are willing to try Icarus. Is this a good phenomenon? Give Icarus a little love, who is willing to support this idea?

hu?

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Just now, zengerz66 said:

because you probably dont think enogh regarding this. 

experienced players have at least 10 hovers fused together with a lot of other gear; that makes them viable. 

You could read this 1 post above yours; which is a good post from a neutral perspective. Yours is biased bs. 

Doesn't answer the question.

 

I have 4 fused Vectors for damage. You don't see me use them in Clan Wars.

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55 minutes ago, Claysdad said:

Yeah, I normally do worse with it. Haha

Saw a bunch of flute hovers today. They didn’t have a good time!

Starting to get good at shooting down their missiles with my whirls, and it seems like the impulse from the whirls is throwing them around a bit once they’re damaged, preventing them from aiming.

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Just now, zengerz66 said:

"linear acceleration curve, creating speed of acceleration that simply cannot be match with anything at any given weight class" 
- dont compare power fused hovers vs standard builds... if you are experienced and a good player you know a good dogbuild can easily keep up driving under a hover constantly doing damage anooying the s... out of a powr fused harpy hover. Those harpy hovers are around 10k weight, same as dogbuilds. Dont compare nonsense next time.

I talk about linear acceleration, you talk about hovers fusioned for power. That right there is nonsense.

 

No amount of experience is going to change the fact the acceleration curve is completely different from other types of movement parts.

 

Just now, zengerz66 said:

"High suspension which makes the crafts not work properly in the maps, most cover is designed around lnd vehicles and hovercraft shoot over most of it"
- its not that you cannot build other builds a bit higher if you want to shoot over cover isnt it? Normally people use the horizontal mandrake to shoot from behind cover at someone in cover...

I did address the suspension later on...

2 hours ago, Spedemix said:

Want to be able to shoot over cover? Now your craft is huge af, thus an easy target and also more prone to flipping because no immunity to flipping.

 

Just now, zengerz66 said:

"Incredibly low power drain, only matched by non-st small wheels, which cannot turn nor strafe"
- that low power drain doesnt mean anything whenyou compare the circle strafe acceleration towards bigger and heavier spiders who change direction more quickly than hovers that weight a bit less than them. Compare the spider power drain and calculate; then look ingame that those numbers dont even add up; so wtf are you talking about? Still hating on hovers while not even up-to-date in knowledge. Stop the old hate because you cant even back it up. 

The low power drain results in an incredible scalability with Icari. That's the very reason why 10 hover builds are as snappy as they are. If you make a build with 8 legs and a meat grinder it will be WAY slower in terms of response than your average 6-legged steppe spider. The low power drain also exacerbates the problem with the linear acceleration curve since the rain doesn't really slow them down as you keep adding more and more hovers.

 

Just now, zengerz66 said:

But its understandable you dont know these simple things; you dont even play the game dont you? 

This is me yesterday:

Spoiler

 

 

Frankly I have no choice but to put you on a blacklist since you cannot have an adult conversation about this with me. If you wanna argue the point, go ahead and argue the point. No wonder PC community views the console players in such low esteem when you have folks like you representing it. You insult and misinterpret what I say. Either by accident or intentionally. That makes you either dumb or malicious, neither which I have time to deal with.

 

You also completely ignored the part where I explain how hovers are also one of the most underpowered part in the game. But yeah I'm biased and all that. But hey, since you're a man (boy?) of principle you could go ahead and tell me otherwise: "No Spede, you're wrong, hovers are totally not underpowered, in fact they're totally overpowered". :DD

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1 hour ago, Spedemix said:

Doesn't answer the question.

 

I have 4 fused Vectors for damage. You don't see me use them in Clan Wars.

And the point you are trying to make is? If you pick pieces to respond at and these are the things you pick; then I would like to tell you that you are kind of begging to be treated in a certain way so dont cry about it next time. 

I just responded to a bs question which was not even a question at all, because every experienced player knows what they pick is dependend on the team setup and the tactics you are planning to run along with many other variables.. Such questions arent even worth answering because they dont take into account players preferences or other factors. I also know enough players who suk on hovers; because not everyone is as smart and skilled. 
Just like in reality and school; not everybody gets the same grades; and in crossout the better players are a minority mirrored by reality where the intellectuals are a minority too. This minority doesnt have many reasons to go on a biased cryharding mission here. I even see the same and usual names who jump on this topic..... it's getting sad and salty you know. 

You just wanted the same cryhard answers as always on that bs question seeing you responding on this particlar answer of mine; "cuz hovers op ya know" :014j:
And it is the same story with hovers over and over: cryhards jump on these topics likes flies; they try to look good or sophisticated in their writings; but if you look real close at the actual rational points they try to make you will find ZERO (intelligence); at least backed up by the game itself in forms we as players can all replicate over and over!! We dont need ungrounded emotional claims on a forum if it is regarding balance!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We dont base science on ungrounded claims either and we call that simply fantasy/emotion. So stick with all the sad emoticons representing the level of thinking here when you all cant even bring up decent arguments like I stated over and over here. 


And I Happen to be here especially to counter the cryhards who have no intelligent reasoning and grounding behind the most often empty claims they drop on forums like there blocking actual intelligent information people could share. I know snowflakes dont like it, but do I look like I care? :salute:

I'll respond to the other bias lateron when I feel like it; with that video where you showd yourself wasting your last ammo :yes_yes_yes:

 

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