TimingToEat

Please give Icarus a little love

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4 hours ago, zengerz66 said:

Do you want to continue in trying to make claims you cannot back up with rational intelligence? 
bringing up emotional bias again? 

What emotional bias is he bringing up exactly? Usually it looks like it's the console hover players that get overly emotional when hovers get brought up. Since the vast majority of hover apologist on the forum consists of console players, it would simply appear that playing hovers on consoles is harder than it is on PC. Which might lower the advantage they hold on consoles and since I've seen a Cricket spider clan getting into top 10 on console CW, I think that it just might be the case. Which would make discussion about hover balance uneven when console and PC players talk to each other. There's a few console players talking about hovers being rare. I played quite a few battles at 12-13K today and hovers made up about half of every team, with the rest being almost exclusively wedges with the occasional spooder or horizontal mandrake.

 

 

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9 hours ago, psiberzerker said:

These are all build challenges, that can be fixed.  Honestly, compared with the Breakdancing Glitch, which can be fixed, by adding Hovers, these don't make them Under-Powered.  Just challenging to build around.  Literally, all you need is Spaced Armor, and all of these are pretty well covered.  Literally.

I'll play the devil's advocate.

 

Every downside is a build/play challenge. I'm pretty sure you can lessen the likelyhood of breakdancing with tracks by making the builds bit wider. Also helps with the possible flipping issues. I've personally overcome the flipping on ledges with spiders using the right maneuvers. They are still weaknesses but they can be overcome - up to a point.

 

While you are able to protect the hovers really well it doesn't change the fact every hover adds a lot of total weight to your craft while bringing measly addition to tonnage. But now that you said it , I guess quite a number of hovers' shortcomings can be circumvented with a right build.

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2 minutes ago, Spedemix said:

I'm pretty sure you can lessen the likelyhood of breakdancing with tracks by making the builds bit wider. Also helps with the possible flipping issues. I've personally overcome the flipping on ledges with spiders using the right maneuvers. They are still weaknesses but they can be overcome - up to a point.

Yes, but on Meat grinders, it ruins the build, so it's no longer viable.

On a sideways hover, spaced armor just makes it as tanky as a Tank that can't go half as fast.  You don;t sacrifice any of the advantages of being a hover, to cover up the disadvantages.

Edited by psiberzerker

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That is thing about hovers. They have a steep learning curve and they compensate with their high skill ceiling. If a person doesn't want to play hovers because they're scared of failing, then they don't deserve to become masters with this powerful movement part. 

I think Meatgrinders and Tracks could use some love though.

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6 minutes ago, CamoWraith said:

That is thing about hovers. They have a steep learning curve and they compensate with their high skill ceiling. If a person doesn't want to play hovers because they're scared of failing, then they don't deserve to become masters with this powerful movement part. 

That's a fair point but the skill ceiling can't go so high it just surpasses everything else and gets to a point where every single veteran player are more or less forced to play it. You can't design a building game around something like that. Both Icari are Epic movement parts so they should be toe to toe in overall effectiveness with Legs, Tracks and Bigfoots.

 

Besides the devs have shown if a weapon with high skill floor (and ceiling) starts to get too good, they WILL do something about it. That's why we got a Whirlwind nerf.

 

Check this part out:

Spoiler

 

The problem with the hovers is exactly the same as Riot had with Akali. Incredibly popular character whose avg. winrate was well..average. But all of a sudden in a tournament with skilled players got a staggering 72% winrate which is WAY off the line.

 

The result was Riot Games ended up first nerfing the character multiple times before completely redesigning it. Point here is that other online games do not seem to tolerate this staggering winrate coupled with super high skill floor. So I don't see why Crossout should either. :dntknw:

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6 hours ago, zengerz66 said:

What is this biased bs? Try to prove such claims hahahahahaa! 

Most of these hovers players would do well with every movement part; you need a brain to use hovers which you can use for every other movement part. 
I dont care what ride I have, I will slap with everything or even beat you in your own build :lol:

Hovers in their current state arent that much of a challange to take down; I wonder why so many people fail at this.... Probably the same reason many of your are killed so easily :yes_yes_yes:

Want to know the funniest thing?   In this post alone, there is you, thinking I'm biased against hovers, and there are a few guys here as well, that think I'm biased in favor of them..    Make your mind folks :lol:

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2 hours ago, Spedemix said:

You can't design a building game around something like that. Both Icari are Epic movement parts so they should be toe to toe in overall effectiveness with Legs, Tracks and Bigfoots.

I feel like Bigfoots can give Hovers a run for their money, the others fall flat.

 

2 hours ago, Spedemix said:

The problem with the hovers is exactly the same as Riot had with Akali. Incredibly popular character whose avg. winrate was well..average. But all of a sudden in a tournament with skilled players got a staggering 72% winrate which is WAY off the line.

 

I agree with your statement. Hovers are hardly a threat in the hands of inexperienced player and/or poor build. However, they are dangerous in the hands of very skilled players and very formidable when there is a coordinated group of skilled hover users.

One of the reasons why Icarus VII is so popular is because of its versatility. It has the low power drain of a light build, the top speed of a medium build, and the net tonnage of a heavy build. Combine these previous mentioned traits with the flip resistance, pivoting, and strafing, hovers can wield most weaponry better than a lot of the other movement parts. Spiders may be sturdier, but they're much slower. Hovers cars have a better balance of speed and toughness. I think something needs to be done to change this balance.

I'm against downright nerfing hovers because one of the two things will happen:

1. Players will just adapt to the change and it will still be super effective.

2. If made unplayable, players will just use the next best movement parts. I'm guessing it would be a lot of spiders vs dogs, droneboats, and shotgun wedges. 

I think the devs should focus on improving ML-200, Tracks, Bigrams, and Meatgrinders first. They should make the under performing parts viable in high PS and Clan Wars and then focus on balancing hovers.

I'm getting sick of the Hovers vs Bigfoot builds. I wish there was more variety. 

Edited by CamoWraith
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In terms of improving tracks, grinders, and legs, maybe give them some heat resistance? Feels like they shouldn’t be as vulnerable to flames as wheels. They’re also a lot more vulnerable to any fire puddles because of their slowness.

 I’m not sure what else legs need (I see some strong spiders, but have barely used the bigrams I have), but the one thing that would really make tracks and augers better for me would be a faster stationary pivot.

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The thing is, Bigrams combine the speed of Wheels with the height, and mobility of Mecha Legs, the durability of Hardened Tracks, and the Power Drain of Bigfoot.

However, they're a lot harder to build around.  That's the only problem I can see with them, other than they're newer, so players haven't gotten used to building around them, like they have ML-200s.

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6 minutes ago, poony4u2 said:

In terms of improving tracks, grinders, and legs, maybe give them some heat resistance? Feels like they shouldn’t be as vulnerable to flames as wheels. They’re also a lot more vulnerable to any fire puddles because of their slowness.

it's not just the wheels that are vulnerable to fire. Generators, fuel barrels, and ammo packs are also vulnerable to fire. I think some of the speed for movement parts need to be be improved. Driving and collision physics need to be improved as well. 

 

25 minutes ago, poony4u2 said:

I’m not sure what else legs need

I think an accuracy buff would be fitting for ML-200. They're suppose to be the most stable movement part. 

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23 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

However, they're a lot harder to build around.  That's the only problem I can see with them, other than they're newer, so players haven't gotten used to building around them, like they have ML-200s.

I feel like there isn't a lot of incentive for people to try them out either.

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1 minute ago, CamoWraith said:

I feel like there isn't a lot of incentive for people to try them out either.

True, but they're honestly great.  I'd even say better than ML-200s, but I'm biased towards Speed.  

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9 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

but I'm biased towards Speed.  

Speed is important. Moving fast and not getting hit is critical for surviving any engagement.

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13 minutes ago, CamoWraith said:

Speed is important. Moving fast and not getting hit is critical for surviving any engagement.

Bigrams also have the best Speed/Durability ratio, by far.  

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4 hours ago, CamoWraith said:

That is thing about hovers. They have a steep learning curve and they compensate with their high skill ceiling. If a person doesn't want to play hovers because they're scared of failing, then they don't deserve to become masters with this powerful movement part. 

I think Meatgrinders and Tracks could use some love though.

Hovers have the easiest learning curve of all the movement parts, ironically their learning curve becomes a plateau pretty quick compared to every other movement part. The potential of what you can do with them is the highest of every movement part, but the experience required to use them at a basic level is by far the least because of how they hold your hand with everything. The only hard part about them is getting used to reverse steering control when going backwards along with the inertia they have when changing direction depending on weight and power drain. 

Meatgrinders don't need anything but bugfixes and more versions of them. At 9k with 2 and a light low balanced vehicle they are borderline op when used by someone who is truly skilled. But I'd annihilate me if I were using a 9k tsunami hover against me using a 9k tsunami grinder. There is a mechanical limitation of I can do with what tools I tangibly possess, and hovers are the ultimate tool in my movement part drawer, even at powerscores where most movement parts are in their prime.

Edited by AFluffyBadger
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Id love to see those crying that hovers are easy use hovers for the first time and instadominate with them like they say people can xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

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Also I know a player who was #HoverMain4Life, then tried wheeled builds and killed hovers 24/7 just fine, shows something about some players

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Hovers are actually underpowered, when was the last time you saw a front facing hover without spaced armor using cheetah engine in cw?
At this point, hovers have been nerfed so much, that the only way to use them viably is ~10 hovers boat + colossus + spaced armor spam + sideways

Edited by Bobbill12345
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Icarus really needs some love...
Hard love..
One that is handed out with a belt and a mouth ball.

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20 hours ago, Firerfly said:

Hover users are.

I use hovers and currently they don't need anymore love!!!!

If anything meatgrinders, bigrams are ML's are the ones that need more love but if they do then the powerscore should be raised accordingly with the strength of the buff they receive..

The Icarus is a very weak movement part but its maneuverability and acceleration is incredible.

The only drawback is the fact that it requires A LOT of practice to master... Especially with sideways builds...

Hovers are fine the way they are at the moment and do not require a nerf either!

 

Edited by HammeredByNature
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6 hours ago, Bobbill12345 said:

Hovers are actually underpowered, when was the last time you saw a front facing hover without spaced armor using cheetah engine in cw?

Yesterday.

When was the last time you played CW?

Edited by psiberzerker
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10 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

When was the last time you played CW?

When was the last time you played cw? I guess never!

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5 minutes ago, Beni_Stingray1 said:

When was the last time you played cw? 

Yesterday.

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2 minutes ago, Beni_Stingray1 said:

Probably rust, that doesnt really count.

So, what league do I have to reach before you switch to "You have to be top 100," then "You have to be top 10?"

I'll reach those goalposts, too.  You asked me when was the last time I played Clan Wars?

Yesterday.  Bobbill hasn't even logged on in the last 15 days.

Edited by psiberzerker
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