[Announcement] Changes to “wedges”. Mass testing

[Woodyrojo 4,676]

Hello there, Wasteland survivors!

As we noted earlier, in parallel with other tasks, we continue to make changes to “wedges”. Today it is time to test their updated version, which took into account a number of your wishes and suggestions.

We remind you that all the new features described in the “Developer blog” are not final and may be changed before they are introduced into the game or may not make it into the game at all. You can study all the planned changes in detail on the special test server!

Let's note the basic principles of the updated mechanics and important changes:

• Now, when raising an enemy vehicle, its mass is taken into account as part of the mass of your vehicle.
• If the total mass of two cars exceeds the tonnage of the “wedge”, its acceleration is greatly reduced. BUT, unlike the first test, the acceleration of vehicles whose weight limit was close to the maximum will decrease gradually. Previously, the acceleration of such vehicles fell sharply even from the lightest hit car.
• The weight that is added to the weight of the “wedge” depends on whether the enemy has contact with the ground.
• Now the influence of cars with hovers on “wedges” will depend on the share of hovers among all chassis mounted on the car. For example: if a car has 4 hovers and 1 wheel, then only 1/5 of the weight will affect the “wedge”. If only hovers are installed on the car, the weight of such craft will not affect the “wedge” in any way.
• Now, compared to the first test,  additional weight is added when the “wedge” contacts the enemy's mechanical legs (previously, only the contact with the frame of the car on legs was taken into account).
• Now the sound of the engine changes under the influence of additional load.

We would like to note that we do not abandon the mechanics of dealing damage to the chassis. But it requires additional improvements related to build mode features. It is planned that it will be implemented and added later.

How to get to the test server?

If you have ever participated in testing features on a special server, then just start the Launcher from the folder with the test client and wait for the update to complete.

• Create a new folder for the game on your hard drive.
• Download the Launcher from this link. The file name should not contain numbers indicating that the file is a duplicate. Please note that you should launch the file that does not contain any digits (1), (2), etc. in its name. If, when starting the installed launcher, you are logged into the live game servers, you need to delete all downloaded launchers from the download folder and try again.
• Start the Launcher and install the game into the folder you created (for example D:\Public test\Crossout).
• After the installation is complete, start the Launcher and log into the game with your username and password.
• The progress of your main account will be transferred to the test server (including parts in storage and levels of reputation with factions).
• After logging into the server, to transfer progress from your account, press the “Esc” key and select “Copy account data”.
• Please note the schedule of the test server:
  • Friday, September 11, 2020 from 13:00 to 19:00 (GMT)
  • Saturday, September 12, 2020 from 13:00 to 19:00 (GMT)
  • Sunday, September 13, 2020 from 13:00 to 19:00 (GMT)
• Any progress you make on the test server will not be transferred to the live game servers (INCLUDING ATTEMPTS TO BUY PACKS).

After testing the changes, we invite you to leave your constructive feedback on the planned rework in THIS THREAD (it will open a bit later after the launch of the test server).

You can report all issues found on the test server here.

The public test server is intended only for testing of the upcoming update, and may not accommodate all players without exception. However, absolutely anyone can join the server, as long as there are free spots.

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[Lebensklinge 1,125]

That are some really good news. 

Edited September 11 by Lebensklinge

[Ka1deron 3,726]

The test server is already open, survivors!

[LOoD 666]

Very interesting system , thank you very much for your job , best news for sure , finally build balance will come with weight consideration reality , im very happy , thx again for this news  

[VisceraCleaner 1,818]

WOW, dev. So this is the image of 'Wedge' build in your head.

So did you believe people complained about 'wedge' which looks like that? 

Edited September 11 by VisceraCleaner

[Le_Bulle_Nanno 79]

when hover and horizontal mandrake nerf? also buff mastodon 

 

[VisceraCleaner 1,818]

Also, i can't understand why you guys always try to use weight limit as a standard. Are you kidding me?

Then how about Cohort vehicle with Colossus engine and only one starter wheel ST?

49 minutes ago, Woodyrojo said:

BUT, unlike the first test, the acceleration of vehicles whose weight limit was close to the maximum will decrease gradually. Previously, the acceleration of such vehicles fell sharply even from the lightest hit car.

Because of its high weight limit, its acceleration will be reduced less than vehicles with more tonnage but less weight limit.

 

Also, don't forget after wedging the target, wedge builds will have advantage to attack the victim without being attacked by him.
Just slowing down acceleration can't be enough disadvantage.

But it is positive that you guys are actually trying to do something to solve wedge problem.

I hope you guys care about the balance little more.

Edit: I still believe tonnage should be only standard in this mechanism.

Edited September 11 by VisceraCleaner

[M4DS 41]

Some really nice news, and i like how u are going to implement this wedge change. But pls, mandrakes are still an issue, and it takes almost no time to change compared to how complicated this system must be to make, u could even have given us a temporary mandrake change months ago yet u keep dragging it out. Pls have a mandrake fix for next update.

[LOoD 666]

8 minutes ago, VisceraCleaner said:

Also, don't forget after wedging the target, wedge builds will have advantage to attack the victim without being attacked by him.
Just slowing down acceleration can't be enough disadvantage.

For this they no forget to say this " We would like to note that we do not abandon the mechanics of dealing damage to the chassis " 

 

for me that's the most dangerous change cause exploit can be finded with this posibility , BlackHat youtuber prouve it in video , wait and see but that's the most hard to add i think

Edited September 11 by LOoD

[rozteddy 50]

I hope u guys dont implement the damage when the wedge car exceeds the masslimit, cuz it does not do anything with the car in low ps. Mass limit depends on the cabin, and in low ps like 7k, they dont use full mass in it. So wedge in the low ps has advantage that they will get less damage than the wedge with high ps which uses full mass. If dev really want that wedge is dealt, there should be somehow standard which is ps global.

So, I dont like u guys still think to implement the damage option, but seems other things are great

[rozteddy 50]

Hi dev, u guys said when the wedge gets weight over the mass limit, unlike the first test, they get slow acceleration decrease, right? then is it also same in the speed? What i mean is, if the wedge get the weight over masslimit, does it decrease the max speed?

[Elcarick 475]

 

55 minutes ago, Woodyrojo said:

the acceleration of vehicles whose weight limit was close to the maximum will decrease gradually.

If the wedge that goes at 100 km/h is still going at 100 km/h with a car on it then it doesn't make sense. Is it just acceleration or also max speed ?

[[email protected] 216]

When black wings update for ps4?

[Lebensklinge 1,125]

Hover buff when? 

[VisceraCleaner 1,818]

@Ka1deron

Still, 5,395 kg vehicle (7040 kg tonnage) can lift 16,149 kg leg build too easily.

It seems with some initial speed, still wedge can lift even track, auger, meat grinder too, but well... it is something related to physics. 
IMO, heavy builds should be much more heavier than now. They are too light to have enough momentum.

In fact, wedge builds are also heavy (this vehicle in screenshot is 15 t) and they can still lift the so called heavy builds (19 ~ 30 t) so easily.
At least, they can't advance but still they can have free chance to destroy the lifted target before the target gets out.

 

I think this mechanic will work well with some balance overhaul, especially after making mass make sense.

There are too many balloons (e.g Chameleon is only 60 kg lighter than normal single person) and heavy tanks in Crossout are lighter than normal farm machines.

Edited September 11 by VisceraCleaner

[TheValak 159]

thanks devs good job!!

and please buff mastodon

[Hydrargyrum 256]

... are the devs aware "wedge" builds don't look (at all) like this pics ?

Wait, do they even know what the community mean when talking about wedging ? Because between this and the fact that this new mechanic literally doesn't change anything to how efficient wedging is, I'm seriously starting to wonder if there isn't something lost in translation.

This will only prevent a wedge from carrying you across the map. The first iteration was clunky, but this new one is absolutely pointless.

If you don't intend to solve the problem to keep the favors of that chunk of your customers who rely on it, please do nothing instead - because this is just embarrassing ...

Edited September 11 by Hydrargyrum

[szefopl 1,564]

Inflicting damage shouldn't be ever considered, it is total BS, you are outsmarting someone and yet you are punished for his incompetence and also wedging some heavy build types is the only way to win with them.

Besides on a wider note, this whole "wedge fix" is a BS lazy workaround instead of a real fix, game physics fix, instead of fixing that and not allowing to wedge much heavier builds than yours (and it is not only that) they just allow things to work as it was, no changes at all, but now you will be punished for doing so even if basically the physics is so broken that you wedge anything no even trying much.

Without inflicting damage maybe this workaround will be fine if they dont want to do a proper fix.

Also do something with horizontal mandrakes already, there was a proposition so they do a lot less damage if the shells didn't reach a certain height, at first i though it would be too punishing in corner case scenarios, but in reality if mandrake is caught by something with a normal weapon it is already dead anyway and also it was designed to shoot only upwards, so basically there is really no reason to not force it to reach certain height and if not lower the damage, there would be no workaround about this regardless how you would build it.

[VisceraCleaner 1,818]

3 minutes ago, Hydrargyrum said:

... are the devs aware "wedge" builds don't look (at all) like this pics ?

Wait, do they even know what the community mean when talking about wedging ? Because between this and the fact that this new mechanic literally doesn't change anything to how efficient wedging is, I'm seriously starting to wonder is there isn't something lost in translation.

This will only prevent a wedge from carrying you across the map. The first iteration was clunky, but this new one is absolutely pointless.

I agree with you.

Without fundamental changes, this will work quite hardly.

Edited September 11 by VisceraCleaner

[SirArkady 151]

It takes my partner 10 seconds to drive down from me. 10 seconds being wedged is quite alot of damage he would need to tank. Its something i guess

The first step in a (good) Direction. 

Edited September 11 by SirArkady

[Elcarick 475]

12 minutes ago, szefopl said:

you are outsmarting someone and yet you are punished for his incompetence

Because ramming into someone and magically lifting them when their build isn't even quick enough to escape is called outsmarting ? Or maybe you are telling me that you never got wedged in your life and that all non-wedge builds are incompetent ?

What I call outsmarting is when the horizontal drake manages to hit your 100 km/h car and you are incompetent enough to take the hit without even dodging it. Why should they be punished because of your incompetence huh ?

Edited September 11 by Elcarick

[Le_Bulle_Nanno 79]

7 minutes ago, szefopl said:

Inflicting damage shouldn't be ever considered, it is total BS, you are outsmarting someone and yet you are punished for his incompetence and also wedging some heavy build types is the only way to win with them.

Besides on a wider note, this whole "wedge fix" is a BS lazy workaround instead of a real fix, game physics fix, instead of fixing that and not allowing to wedge much heavier builds than yours (and it is not only that) they just allow things to work as it was, no changes at all, but now you will be punished for doing so even if basically the physics is so broken that you wedge anything no even trying much.

Without inflicting damage maybe this workaround will be fine if they dont want to do a proper fix.

Also do something with horizontal mandrakes already, there was a proposition so they do a lot less damage if the shells didn't reach a certain height, at first i though it would be too punishing in corner case scenarios, but in reality if mandrake is caught by something with a normal weapon it is already dead anyway and also it was designed to shoot only upwards, so basically there is really no reason to not force it to reach certain height and if not lower the damage, there would be no workaround about this regardless how you would build it.

nerf hover when? nerf lance when? the majority of high ps dosent care about wedges. are hovers gonna be fixed? they are dominating for years now and all dev do is nerf dog. the one thing that counter hovers and they cry. hovers have **** good acceleration in all directions making it highly manuverable even when 20 tonnes which is stupid. if you have a 20 tonne wheeled build it would be a slow brick but if you have a 20 tonne hover its normal. and one completely outmanuvers the other one. at top tier catching a hover requires a lot of outsmarting and teamfight tactics but you are making jobs for hovers easier and easier. also remove lances already, it has capability for a 14 lance build to wipe out the entire enemy team in clanwars and is stupid

[VisceraCleaner 1,818]

4 hours ago, SirArkady said:

It takes my partner 10 seconds to drive down from me. 10 seconds being wedged is quite alot of damage he would need to tank. Its something i guess

The first step in a (good) Direction. 

We had tested too and we also got similar result.

 

With wide and long vehicle, driving down from the wedge was impossible or took longer than 10 secs.

 

Even same nimble wedge builds could be lifted at least for 3 seconds.

 

Still wedge is threatening and can neutralize some vehicles easily for quite long time.
So...

4 hours ago, Hydrargyrum said:

This will only prevent a wedge from carrying you across the map. The first iteration was clunky, but this new one is absolutely pointless.

He is right.

 

I think this change is fine but there should be more.
Lifting light vehicles for long time is fine, but wedges should have bad time or risk to lift the heavy builds.

The problem is, in Crossout, heavy builds are not heavy so making difference for wedge in current mechanism is so difficult.
Heavy builds should be heavier and be actually HEAVY.

Edited September 11 by VisceraCleaner

[delraith 252]

For goodness sake, I've put a suggestion out in the past about how this problem would be fairly well addressed if ALL MOVEMENT PARTS DID DAMAGE DIRECTLY BELOW THEM. That's it, make an AoE for damage directly beneath the movement part contact area and base the damage on mass divided amongst movement parts. Wheels would do the least amount of damage, tracks and legs would pulverize in comparison. You have the code for augers, just modify that.

[szefopl 1,564]

44 minutes ago, VisceraCleaner said:

Still, 5,395 kg vehicle (7040 kg tonnage) can lift 16,149 kg leg build too easily.

Depends how realistic you want it to be as wedging is not lifting, in real world you need a lot less weight to wedge something, less than half of its weight if it is touching the ground, so in this example ~7000 kl of leg build is quite close to 5400kg.

It all depends how realistic it should be and how much broken is the physics in game, that's why we should have a better and more transparent thing than this "wedge fix",, there should be a hard weight difference limit and force that will allow to wedge something or not.