Woodyrojo

[Announcement] Changes to “wedges”. Mass testing

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31 minutes ago, Nannookkslav said:

nerf hover when? nerf lance when? the majority of high ps dosent care about wedges.

They care, i care, every small build not on hovers is using wedge one way or another, this is how the game works, how the physics works in game, so u can't really not consider it, you are forced and it is ok, in reality this is a nerf for smaller builds so they should compensate it somehow if they want to do this, cuz what u do get in return against heavy armoured builds, its a free buff for them right?

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Hello

Sorry for the offtopic, but i really wanna ask something

Will you consider implementing a more friendly custom maker? Like, the possibility to go alone, to change specific parameters, like how long a battle will take, the possibility to share a blueprint only for a specific team, also to use any map in a bedlam scenario would be nice

 

Other thing, ship graveyard doesn't work in custom battles, bedlam scenario

Edited by ZeusssS
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Hi @Ka1deron thnks, but please info us on Ps4 how is the Ravens update going? is the update coming next week? :popcorn:

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@Ka1deron i did saw videos about the Mastodons shots, i think there has to be a button to keep single or double shot with on push of the trigger.

 

Edited by Da_Costa_83
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The wedge is still an important build aspect for close combat weapons. Most wheeled players do use a wedge with every weapon set. It's important that you don't overdo this and lose your majority of players. To a few people who camp the back row and not use Radar or detectors. 

 

Which by the way most matches on PC I know very few people actually use a radar. Who are likely the one's in favor of this mod.

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39 minutes ago, VisceraCleaner said:

The problem is, in Crossout, heavy builds are not heavy so making difference for wedge in current mechanism is so difficult.
Heavy builds should be heavier and be actually HEAVY.

I think you perfectly address the problem here.

What would happen when the devs increase the force of gravity by lets say 3 times?

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I must say though, the slowdown and all that feels right, you can still get wedged but you don't get kidnapped so crazy hard anymore.  <3

Some changes to implementing movement parts dealing damage will make this so much better!

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2 hours ago, Woodyrojo said:

 

  • Now, when raising an enemy vehicle, its mass is taken into account as part of the mass of your vehicle.
  • If the total mass of two cars exceeds the tonnage of the “wedge”, its acceleration is greatly reduced. BUT, unlike the first test, the acceleration of vehicles whose weight limit was close to the maximum will decrease gradually. Previously, the acceleration of such vehicles fell sharply even from the lightest hit car.
  • The weight that is added to the weight of the “wedge” depends on whether the enemy has contact with the ground.
  • Now the influence of cars with hovers on “wedges” will depend on the share of hovers among all chassis mounted on the car. For example: if a car has 4 hovers and 1 wheel, then only 1/5 of the weight will affect the “wedge”. If only hovers are installed on the car, the weight of such craft will not affect the “wedge” in any way.
  • Now, compared to the first test,  additional weight is added when the “wedge” contacts the enemy's mechanical legs (previously, only the contact with the frame of the car on legs was taken into account).
  • Now the sound of the engine changes under the influence of additional load.

We would like to note that we do not abandon the mechanics of dealing damage to the chassis. But it requires additional improvements related to build mode features. It is planned that it will be implemented and added later.

this is a step in the right direction, but the wedge NEEDS to have damage dealt to it like on the first test.

perhaps if the wedge becomes over tonnage the wheels take dmg and if its overmass the engine takes dmg.

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Elcarick said:

Or maybe you are telling me that you never got wedged in your life and that all non-wedge builds are incompetent ?

Yeah, i was wedged many times, the thing is, im not complaining, this is how the game works, i dont blame anyone he is using wedge, its either you or him, once you win, once the enemy, so yeah i was outsmarted as were everyone in this game, and it is fine, or are you gonna pretend to be infallible? Cuz im not and everyone makes mistakes or have bad luck, many of wedge situations are pure random and luck based, this is probably why this game is not getting boring that much, cuz u can always have some random action.

53 minutes ago, Elcarick said:

Or maybe you are telling me that you never got wedged in your life and that all non-wedge builds are incompetent ?

Well again, im not the one complaining the most, i have seen a lot of complains about it on pvp too, personally for me i can deal with it, its a one chance vs one chance, either he will hit me and kill or he wont make it to the next reload, and if you would only see it only that way, it is kinda fair to some degree, but...

in reality it is the single strongest weapon that was not designed for this, thats way it had so much damage as it was not direct, part of the success  was to make accurate shots, horizontal mandrake on the other hand has full damage and 100% accuracy and i think most will agree that the most powerful alpha weapon that can kill builds in one shot or damage them beyond ability to fight should not have 100% accuracy.

So i dont think losing to it is incompetent in the light that it is using some build "tricks" to have 100% accuracy it shouldn't have in the first place, u dont think?

Besides im just one player, there were far more complains about it, cuz on pvp u dont have the luxury of tracking everything whats happening on the battlefield and being taken then by surprise one shot mandrake isn't fun at all, so probably thats why they are working to fix it.
 

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Another idea/question:

Why does the fronts of wedges dont dig into the ground in Crossout?

When they have those blades in the front and try to lift something, the suspension lowers the front and the blades would direclty gets pushed into the ground.

Is that possible to realise in game?

Edited by Dantec2
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The acceleration/speed drop is  a good start, but it only addresses half of the problem. Weight will now matter, instead of just magically disappearing when lifted, but it does nothing about losing nearly all traction.

Would it be possible at all for traction to apply on top of other vehicles? I know it'd be a complicated fix due to requiring engine work, but this is by far the largest issue with wedges.

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Easy wedge fix, Weight adds up on Lifting vehicle, slowing down and start crushing his car.:012j:

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Further testing, these changes to how wedging/lifting works is a HUGE IMPROVEMENT.

 

Thank you for your work.

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Mmmm this smell like this -14% height fly to hovers , wedges still op and reduce aceleration is not enough to prevent wedges

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 Devs, please rebalance all engine , and change all engine energy cost 0  :yes_yes_yes:

Edited by ArgHx
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Wait! I think this is new and they forgot to mention it:


Movement parts now have traction when you are wedged. You can drive off of a wedge now.

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It won't be enough of a fix. Once a wedge breaks ground contact with wheels on one side of your build, the other side magically stops applying traction. If you are being pushed by another build, your wheels can be on the ground but you will never have enough traction to pull off. The key thing to do here is prevent the wedge from being able to lift anybody to begin with, and punishing wedging with frame damage. If collision damage targeted frames between your builds center of gravity and the impact, and crushing damage destroyed frames, wedges would disappear overnight. Two 10 ton dogs ramming eachother at 100km/h should result in both vehicles being completely deframed and immobilized. 

The wedges after this update will still work fine, they will just add a bumper before their guns so anybody they wedge can't be directly on top of them. If people wan't to dog and wedge force them to use very durable and heavy frames unless they want to be instantly deframed. 

I understand the physics engine is old and obsolete, and it is a lot of effort to get a better working engine, so ramp up collision damage and the length it travels to prevent people from using wedges to begin with. If they use a wedge or dog, they will need to shed armor and health for frame durability. Seems fair to me. 

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this should be pushed to main server asap so we can test it in real-world situations 

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Just now, ZKWS said:

this should be pushed to main server asap so we can test it in real-world situations 

It's not going to be enough.

This is some of my testing in the garage: 

That's a super heavy walker that got pushed around like nothing even with the proposed wedge fixes. You have to stop entirely to feel the affects on acceleration and otherwise you can just keep going while wedging someone.

Against a lighter halftrack with a 16K mass limit:

Against a light support build:

This is not half as much as is needed to stop wedging even if they will need to be lighter to wedge effectively.

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4 minutes ago, SIGMA920 said:

It's not going to be enough.

no but its getting there, it needs the damage added back too.

in our testing tho spiders were acc able to get off of a wedge and wheels seamed to actually get traction on wedges and drive off 

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Wow, didnt expected that.
From reading i got to say: good job. 

But

3 hours ago, Woodyrojo said:

We would like to note that we do not abandon the mechanics of dealing damage to the chassis. But it requires additional improvements related to build mode features. It is planned that it will be implemented and added later.

please dont do that. 
~"Damage to the parts, not to the weight." 
Should mean: if i got wedged and have a dorn, saw, ... below my build then this part deal the dmg.
But i think "artificial" dmg would lead one day to an exploit (as soon some new item gets added).

All in all it would be perfect if
- victim gets wedged (i.e. from below)
- wedge gets slowed down pretty quick so it can not drive below
- victim drives forward with its normal speed|acceleration
- wedge gets its normal speed|acceleration back:
-- A:  as soon the wedge has no contact with the victim anymore
-- B: same as A but with a delay that depends on the victims weigh

"B" could give the victim a chance to "react", and to not get wedged over and over again.

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Just now, delraith said:

Wait! I think this is new and they forgot to mention it:


Movement parts now have traction when you are wedged. You can drive off of a wedge now.

The main reason why you can drive off of a wedge in PT is because the car underneath you slows down enough that your speed will top his. The main reason why people couldn't drive off of wedges was because the car underneath would keep driving under the top car as the top car attempted to drive off. if that makes any sense.

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