Woodyrojo

[Feedback] Changes to “wedges”. + and -

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ATTENTION! The topic is created to gather all the constructive feedback regarding the changes and new features in progress. Please, leave your feedback only after you've tested the changes on the special test server. All the posts that are not made in accordance with the example below will be deleted!

EXAMPLE

These are the features I like the most:

  • .... (in brief)
  • ....
  • ....

These are the features that I don't like:

  • ....., because...
  • ....., because...

Conclusion: (brief constructive conclusion that sums up your overall experience)

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9 minutes ago, Spedemix said:

Summary: It's definitely better than the last test we had.

Thanks, one of I'm gonna say the 3 playtesters I wanted to hear from.

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These are the features I like the most:

  • There is a promise of damage in the future.
  • The fix works properly with legs now.

These are the features that I don't like:

  • The speed effects are far too weak to be of much effect overall (Both in when they kick in and at point they kick in.). Examples included below.

 

 

Conclusion: Changes will have too little of an effect compared to those of first fix unless the damage will make up for this.

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@SIGMA920 as per my response to you in the other thread:
Those are inert targets, and the difference between the current state of XO and the test version is fairly drastic. If those vehicles were being piloted they would be able to maneuver free of the wedge in a few seconds easy-peasy (plus they don't get carried across the map hundreds of meters). You almost stop dead in your tracks when you collide with them. I find your conclusion hasty and cannot agree with it.

Things I like:
+ Everything about this change looks great so far

I echo @Spedemix's remarks and I look forward to further improvements, thank you for your work. +1

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8 hours ago, s_Lightning_s said:

I hope it will have an effect on my teammates. I was held up in the corner by my teammates for many times in PVP.

sounds fair but way too risky to implement, way to many people would complain about this over time and on top of it those toxic player that originally pushed you and got you stuck might end up finding even worse type of build for crushing their own ally making an even bigger anti-play/troll builds that we clearly don't want to see.

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15 hours ago, s_Lightning_s said:

I hope it will have an effect on my teammates. I was held up in the corner by my teammates for many times in PVP.

It appears to work on friendly and enemy targets the exact same way when we tested it out.

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23小时前,Zeptrio说:

听起来很公平,但是实施起来却太冒险了,许多人会随着时间的流逝抱怨它,最重要的是那些最初将您推向高潮并让您陷于困境的有毒玩家可能最终发现了更糟糕的建筑类型来压制自己的盟友我们显然不希望看到更大的反打/巨魔版本。

解决队友的速度变慢的效果,如果团队效率低下并不总是总是首发,则报告不会立即生效

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If you take it as far as some want the wedge or melee build will not work at all. I think with the doppler and other anti chameleon tools already available it's fine where it is already. You should do a proper poll on the game many may not want this change. 

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1 hour ago, gruesomeIntent said:

If you take it as far as some want the wedge or melee build will not work at all. I think with the doppler and other anti chameleon tools already available it's fine where it is already. You should do a proper poll on the game many may not want this change. 

Manny wants this change

I guess u are a wedge player

Its not logic that a mause can lift an elefant and push him around like a piece of paper 

We need a very good solution for this issue 

If a wedge user approaches you with 100 km at the impact normaly he needs to lose most (80-90%) of his speed and then the power/weight penalty should start to be active to make it perform properly 

 

My opinion 

 

 

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On 9/12/2020 at 10:15 AM, s_Lightning_s said:

I hope it will have an effect on my teammates. I was held up in the corner by my teammates for many times in PVP.

That will kill the idea of fusions.It'll kill my fusion for sure.

Combined weight is 34 tons.38 tons if I take the version I have with a crane on it (that's just for adventure messing around purposes) and which might even become heavier because I have to re-design it.

Setting it up would be a pain as well because in order to get the connector into position I am in constant contact with the other part of the fusion.(Sliding under it)

To get an idea of how my fusion is.

The 1st player has a truck with wheels on the front and tracks on the rear (halftrack build) with a big flatbed part on the rear and a area just behind the cab and before the flatbed where the 3 miniguns are in a L shape.(2 are behind the cohort cab,1 is on the cab itself above the driver's position) (You can search on Exhibition my build "Soviet Behemoth", it's the non-fusion version and doesn't have the Cohort cabin but it's based on that,it's just slightly shorter and doesn't have the flatbed part,everything behind the exhausts is the fusion part.)

The 2nd player has no wheels,a stand and is like a container with weapons on top on that flatbed part.

In raids it already takes a long time to set it up,especially on raids that don't have a small gap before the actual raids begins,for example Last Convoy,if I get the penalty as well for the overweight thing then it will 100% kill the fun (or practicality) of taking the fusion anywhere.And it's very effective in raids, adventure and patrols.

Why didn't you report that player that held you in the corner?

Because of 1 player I don't think that all of the players that use fusions should suffer because of that. (who knows how many there are anymore at this point...because it seems Ravens didn't bother to bring the connectors and rifts back like last time.)

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1 minute ago, Rob326 said:

That will kill the idea of fusions.It'll kill my fusion for sure.

Combined weight is 34 tons.38 tons if I take the version I have with a crane on it (that's just for adventure messing around purposes) and which might even become heavier because I have to re-design it.

Then redesign it.  Fusions are a Build Challenge anyway.  This just makes it more challenging.  This is a car building game, so the solution is usually rebuild your car.  Kinda the first thing of Crossout.

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What I like about the update:

-The wedging problem is finally getting attention again after some time.

-The penalty doesn't affect the car of the player that is getting wedged.

What I don't like about the update:

-The penalty seems to be too low or activate too late on lighter builds (9.3 ton halftrack).

-The penalty might affect fusions

Conclusion:

-A step in the right direction,but it could kill good fusion ideas.

-If the penalty doesn't affect friendly players,the update is very good.Only problem is that the penalty seems to work weird in some scenarios.

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6 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

Then redesign it.  Fusions are a Build Challenge anyway.  This just makes it more challenging.  This is a car building game, so the solution is usually rebuild your car.  Kinda the first thing of Crossout.

There's no way for me to redesign it without making it useless on the battlefield.It would become like the Soviet T28 tank. It had a lot of guns and looked cool to the public and maybe the generals but had no armor capable to face any kind of anti-tank gun (30 mm on it's thickest part,not sloped armor.I don't think that it would have been able to survive the early Panzer III's pea shooter gun) Basically just a "look,we made it!" creation.

The re-design would just make my truck a bigger,slower and easier to hit version of my normal half-track.I would have to use my non-fusion version of the truck to keep my high HP.Which means loosing the extra firepower from the fusion part and completely killing the fusion because there's no working around it.

I am already on 80/80 parts on both parts of the fusion.I can't use any lighter counterparts of the armor I already use because even with my armor right now some factions (looking at you Steppenwolves and Dawn's Children) chew through it like it's nothing.So it would just need 1 shot and half of the build's internals are gone.Most of the time after the armor is destroyed somehow the AI manages to get a shot near the cab in such a way that it misses the cab and destroys only the connector and nothing else.I get the point that they are hard raids,but sometimes it's just ridiculous.

The whole idea of making that fusion was to have a lot of HP in order to get away from my normal half-track's weak point which is that it is dead after 2-3 cannon shots (either 2 out of my 3 guns get shot off or all armor is gone,which means direct cab damage,and the Favorite cab isn't that good in the durability category).And other than going with the meta there's no fix for that...Because right now from what I've seen and heard the meta is dogs,wedges and side hovers.Might be outdated,I haven't played PvP in...6-8 months or more? I didn't bother to count the months.I know that the last actual PvP battle I enjoyed was when the "Experiment" battle was online Last time I played PvP was for the talers from the Knight Riders event in November 2019,didn't even bother playing even once on this one with the "Ravens" (faction that I absolutely despise BTW because of what they do in the lore of the game) because I was planning on getting another set of connectors and rifts,but it seems the Ravens didn't bother to bring the thing I wanted to get so I didn't bother to play that game mode (and PvP as a consequence),if there was a PvE version for the talers,I would have played for talers,but nope. I mostly play raids, adventure,patrols and CW and I enjoy it.From what my clan mates are saying about the players they get matched with,it makes me feel glad that I gave up on PvP long time ago. I like being different,perhaps it's because of my ex-classmates which were...let's say not the best of people.But from what I've learned from them,the more different you are,the better.Might not be a good thing but who cares at this point? I hate being like all the others,in-game or real life.

Idea of the game is to get creative with the builds...adding that restriction just lowers the creativity potential and the fun factor.And not having fun in a game kinda defeats the whole purpose of playing the game.

It'll be like: "Hey! I could make this huge awesome cool looking build! But it would weigh 47 tons and there's no way to cut that weight in half....Well,time to uninstall and find another game!"

And that is ignoring the fact that it took me half a year of grinding to get the materials for Cohort.

And Cohort+Golden Eagle would be the only way to get that weight even do-able and have decent amounts of HP.

P.S. Sorry for going side-tracked with this reply compared to the original thread,I've shared my opinion on the update in a different reply on this update.

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2 minutes ago, Rob326 said:

P.S. Sorry for going side-tracked with this reply compared to the original thread, I've shared my opinion on the update in a different reply on this update.

Don't be.  I like talking about builds, and build challenges.  I wish more people did that, instead of trying to invalidate everyone else, so they're the king of the scrapheap by default.

Sounds like you're going to have to start over from scratch.  I like doing that, but I'm weird.

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3 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

Don't be.  I like talking about builds, and build challenges.  I wish more people did that, instead of trying to invalidate everyone else, so they're the king of the scrapheap by default.

Sounds like you're going to have to start over from scratch.  I like doing that, but I'm weird.

I guess we'll live and see what happens next.

If I'll have to remake the whole build,it'll most probably end up being very weak or even useless in hard raids and would result in me giving up on the fusion idea and just remember it as a chapter in my Crossout career.

And I dislike the "Noooooooooooooooo! You are wrong I am right!" kind of people a lot.When you ask then for evidence they just try to change the subject because they know they don't have any good arguments.

I respect the ones that apologize after they are proven wrong.I like the friendly way of presenting the facts,not just shoving the facts in a condescending way,those are just as bad as the guys that create the scenario and don't accept the fact that they are wrong.

Sadly because of my ex-classmates I became a closed person that didn't talk too much with others.But because I got out of that situation now I am starting to realize that people aren't that bad and aggressive as I expected to be against me on any and every subject.So Thank you for being so nice! :) Most people don't realize how much even such little acts mean for others.At least for me this means a lot.

Feel free to PM me here or in-game. I'm always happy to chat.

All I need to know now is what to do in order to become a GM.I've played for 3 years and I would love to help make the game better,in any way I can.  :p

Heh,who knows,maybe an Administrator will see this message and let me know what to do so I can become a GM. :) 

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2 hours ago, Rob326 said:

That will kill the idea of fusions.It'll kill my fusion for sure.

Combined weight is 34 tons.38 tons if I take the version I have with a crane on it (that's just for adventure messing around purposes) and which might even become heavier because I have to re-design it.

Setting it up would be a pain as well because in order to get the connector into position I am in constant contact with the other part of the fusion.(Sliding under it)

To get an idea of how my fusion is.

第一名球员的卡车前部装有轮子,后部装有履带(半履带结构),后部有一个很大的平板部分,正好在驾驶室后方且平板前面的区域,其中3支小型机枪呈L形。( 2个位于同乘驾驶室后面,1个位于驾驶者自身上方的驾驶室本身)(您可以在展览上搜索我的版本“苏维埃巨兽”,它是非融合版本,没有同伴驾驶室,但基于此) ,它略短一些,没有平板部分,排气管后面的所有东西都是融合部分。)

第二个玩家没有轮子,没有支架,就像一个平板顶部装有武器的容器。

In raids it already takes a long time to set it up,especially on raids that don't have a small gap before the actual raids begins,for example Last Convoy,if I get the penalty as well for the overweight thing then it will 100% kill the fun (or practicality) of taking the fusion anywhere.And it's very effective in raids, adventure and patrols.

Why didn't you report that player that held you in the corner?

Because of 1 player I don't think that all of the players that use fusions should suffer because of that. (who knows how many there are anymore at this point...because it seems Ravens didn't bother to bring the connectors and rifts back like last time.)

Teammate PVP backed me, of course I reported it, but it may be useless to report it, he also backed me next.Then, as long as the car is connected together, it is considered as a whole. I don't think it will affect the deceleration effect of teammates.

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1 minute ago, Rob326 said:

Heh,who knows,maybe an Administrator will see this message and let me know what to do so I can become a GM.

Ideally, they would tap players to help them out with Builds.  For example, the basic Faction builds are old, and not a lot of fun to fight.  The new ones are complex, and interesting, but they took a while to Develop.

So, if they tapped willing Builders, then the Devs would have more free time for stuff like fixing Meat Grinders.

I've already gotten a warning for replying to you OT, so i'll just say "You're welcome."

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7 minutes ago, s_Lightning_s said:

Teammate PVP backed me, of course I reported it, but it may be useless to report it, he also backed me next.Then, as long as the car is connected together, it is considered as a whole. I don't think it will affect the deceleration effect of teammates.

I'm sad to hear that there are such players.

And I misunderstood your idea about the fusions being affected at first.I'm not 100% sure that the game considers the two builds as a whole build,but it makes a lot of sense now that you mention it!

Thank you for bringing that up!

From what I've tested on the Test Server the pushing of Dogs and Wedges will be nerfed a lot.

I don't know how much Tusk builds will be affected.But I am glad that they are fixing those problems.

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The Wedge Fix seems to be something half and nothing whole again.
What happens if a vehicle runs under another vehicle?
In normal physics, both vehicles are damaged depending on their speed, 
in particular the vehicle under the previous vehicle is severely damaged by the additional weight.

If the physics is corrected, then the "final version" is ready. 
These 50% redesigns to be done at some point later bring you a little further away from a finished final version with each patch.

PS. The production costs for all parts are MUCH too expensive, so you don't attract new players,
the introduction to the game now takes almost a year. If you want to improve anything at all,
the costs have to be reduced by at least 50% for each part, 75% would be better.
It's time to get the game right, instead of making it worse.
(It's hard to believe how hard the developers are trying to turn their own game into a dead bullet.
Getting into the game until you have competitive vehicles is MUCH too long. 
Whoever starts now needs 12 months to be competitive, all direct competitors (other game developers) can do that in 3 months ...)
Edited by ancient_divinity
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This is such a huge improvement over the last test.. I like that it comes in gradually because there are circumstances in which you "wedge" completely unintentionally.. just hitting someone with a normal build and they ramp up on you or a you hit a spider, it gives you an opportunity to correct it.  Though this time could also be leveraged by people to flip others.  I also like that it doesn't seem to affect hovers anymore which seems like it should be correct.

 

It does need to do some damage, maybe in the same slow application as the slowing, because in a lot of situations it won't matter if you have someone wedged and your speed is greatly reduced, because you already have them wedged and the damage has been done, can still just shoot, and in fact being not able to move actually makes it easier for you to keep them on top of you without accidentally forcing them off.  The damage thing will likely be a key part in making this work and I hope the improvements in that aspect are in line with these.

 

My only concern now is the unintended consequences, yet to be observed, that these changes may bring with them in effecting otherwise normal (non-wedge) game play.

 

 

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