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Make mandrakes great again!


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So i grinded a long time to finally get my first mandrake, and i instantly went for a horizontal build, the car looked weird, had many weakpoints, but sometimes i got lucky and got a kill, fun for about a week then they removed that option.  Fast forward, i built a normally oriented mandrake, but they "improved the handling" and removed to option to shoot on oneself without a slope. It takes up 8 energy, so if you wanna get 2 be prepared for a small car without a lot of options. It is absolutely useless once someone gets in meele range, most shotgun builds need about 2- 3 shots to get it off. For such a huge weapon its not durable enough. Also even though i run the torero cabin, i feel lucky when even 1 shot hits where i am aiming, even when i'm standing completely still.  Also the range, Crater map for example, it gets shot off from each type of cannon, autocannon, rockets etc but you gotta drive a good bit before you are in range... its an artillery damn it. Speaking of maps: Sector EX. I don't know any other weapon that gets almost completely taken out only by a map.

It needs a buff, definitely.  I did read a nice suggestion here in the forum but i cant find the link anymore, which said that we could have the aim marker also on the minimap. after all it is an artillery that should aim with the radar. A bit more accuracy would be awesome. I thought of one less energy , which would be awesome for double mandrake as they can finally build a car that is more that a cabin, gen and the 2 weapons, but that would be a bit of a massive buff. Maybe something like 7.5 energy? if you use one it takes 7 energy, if you run 2 it takes 15.

(I am currently running Torero, Mandrake, T4 Python for Backup, Colossus and Argus on Augers) I don't have a Doppler as i'm always duo with someone that does =P

 

Edit: Also noticed that when i fall over, the mandrake just disappears
 

Edited by Grimgork5
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The aim marker on the map would take away from the skill of aiming mandrakes. 7 energy, though, would be a nice buff.

So i grinded a long time to finally get my first mandrake, and i instantly went for a horizontal build, the car looked weird, had many weakpoints, but sometimes i got lucky and got a kill, fun for abo

You still can, it's just harder to do. Mandrakes don't need more health, what you described is a weakness. Moving the gun while firing throws off your shots and mandrakes are not pin poi

39 minutes ago, Grimgork5 said:

Fast forward, i built a normally oriented mandrake, but they "improved the handling" and removed to option to shoot on oneself without a slope.

You still can, it's just harder to do.

39 minutes ago, Grimgork5 said:

It takes up 8 energy, so if you wanna get 2 be prepared for a small car without a lot of options. It is absolutely useless once someone gets in meele range, most shotgun builds need about 2- 3 shots to get it off. For such a huge weapon its not durable enough.

Mandrakes don't need more health, what you described is a weakness.

41 minutes ago, Grimgork5 said:

Also even though i run the torero cabin, i feel lucky when even 1 shot hits where i am aiming, even when i'm standing completely still.

Moving the gun while firing throws off your shots and mandrakes are not pin point precision weapons anyway.

44 minutes ago, Grimgork5 said:

Also the range, Crater map for example, it gets shot off from each type of cannon, autocannon, rockets etc but you gotta drive a good bit before you are in range... its an artillery damn it.

Once at the edge of the crater, you can fire beyond the opposite edge with ease. They're range is just fine.

49 minutes ago, Grimgork5 said:

It needs a buff, definitely.  I did read a nice suggestion here in the forum but i cant find the link anymore, which said that we could have the aim marker also on the minimap. after all it is an artillery that should aim with the radar. A bit more accuracy would be awesome. I thought of one less energy , which would be awesome for double mandrake as they can finally build a car that is more that a cabin, gen and the 2 weapons, but that would be a bit of a massive buff. Maybe something like 7.5 energy? if you use one it takes 7 energy, if you run 2 it takes 15.

The mandrake doesn't need buffs.

1. The aim marker suggestion is an awful idea. It would remove any and all skill from using mandrakes since you're basically clicking on a map to aim.

2. Lowering mandrake energy cost to 7 will lead to mandrakes with both a colossus and an epic radar detector. Spam firing mandrakes will become OPed if such a combination is allowed much less considering other combinations like dual mandrake with a kapkan.

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3 hours ago, HexWarfare said:

7 energy, though, would be a nice buff.

It'd be alot more than a nice buff. That'd mean anything from 2 1 energy modules (Many of which would be massively useful to a dual mandrake.) or a single 2 energy module like the kapkan.

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How about 7 energy, but nerf the fire damage? Make it more pure artillery, less napalm bomb.

At the moment, they have no appeal to me. But at 7 energy with current direct damage and very little fire damage I might want to grind one or two out.

Edited by poony4u2
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2 minutes ago, poony4u2 said:

How about 7 energy, but nerf the fire damage? Make it more pure artillery, less napalm bomb.

The vast majority of mandrake damage already comes from the blast of the shells, not the fire. Reducing fire damage just makes it less able to deny ground to enemies.

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2 minutes ago, SIGMA920 said:

It'd be alot more than a nice buff. That'd mean anything from 2 1 energy modules (Many of which would be massively useful to a dual mandrake.) or a single 2 energy module like the kapkan.

I'd be fine with that.  This game is in the middle of a w+m1 meta ( and based on the test server, they are only interested in encouraging it) , so allowing dual mandrakes  to use two modules (and I expect most would use Colossus as one of them)  or a kap mine  would be fine. 

Even if they go with the kap, they would still have a massive weakness to close range builds and would still not be flexible. 

It certainly won't make them become overpowered. They're one of the more difficult weapons to use ( if not the most difficult), 7 energy would not suddenly make them into a meta nor would it even make them popular enough for "spam firing" to be a issue. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Steel_Artist said:

I'd be fine with that.  This game is in the middle of a w+m1 meta ( and based on the test server, they are only interested in encouraging it) , so allowing dual mandrakes  to use two modules (and I expect most would use Colossus as one of them)  or a kap mine  would be fine. 

The main reason that I question it is that I can already see ridiculousness resulting from half of both team using colossuses and radar detectors to spam out shots without care. Or dual mandrake builds constantly cloaking and decloaking when they using a cloak and cheetah.

Horizontal mandrakes drove a nerf to mandrakes, when everyone and their grandmother is spam firing them or being ridiculously annoying with them that's going to drive a nerf that makes them useless in 1 way or another.

5 minutes ago, Steel_Artist said:

Even if they go with the kap, they would still have a massive weakness to close range builds and would still not be flexible. 

Use the beholder, deploy the kapkan at a choke point and let enemies run into it. Now nuke them as they can't get away.

8 minutes ago, Steel_Artist said:

It certainly won't make them become overpowered. They're one of the more difficult weapons to use ( if not the most difficult), 7 energy would not suddenly make them into a meta nor would it even make them popular enough for "spam firing" to be a issue. 

Mandrakes are one of a few weapons being fired that drive players to scatter like rats fleeing from a cat as soon as it's fired. With +10%/20% of reload boost, their reload is reduced significantly (I use a red hot on my dual mandrake build for this very reason.) which makes them much easier to use since a missed shot is less punishing. With a radar detector, that's a near perfect way to target enemies that you don't get with just a radar. Cloaks are self explanatory as are most engines with perks.

That may not make them outright OPed in the hands of someone not used to them (Anyone already with the skill to use them well will be able to use them in a fashion that makes them outright OPed.) but their newfound popularity will make them used by so many that it will drive a nerf or further buff of some kind.

If a weapon isn't commonly used because it's harder to use than most, that doesn't mean you dumb it down or make it easier to use so it's used more, what you do is leave it be since it should be up to your players to learn how to use it effectively (see the blockchain as an example of this. When it's perk was in use it was a monster of a weapon but because people didn't bother using it's perk, it got changed into a generic energy cannon.).

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9 hours ago, HexWarfare said:

The aim marker on the map would take away from the skill of aiming mandrakes.

7 energy, though, would be a nice buff.

This 

For everyone who is newer to the game, never used mandrakes, or never though much into it, the 8 energy of the mandrake is a throwback from the past when 15 energy was the maximum amount, most high PS build had a gas gen and could be popped easily with one mandrake, the drake shot the way it shoots with torrero accuracy bonus on a humpback. The game has grown and changed massively but the mandrake has not really been updated to reflect the changes. When you only could use one (only needed one) for competitive high PS play, not to mention everyone ran a humpback at the time and there was not a variety of OP push builds. Horizontal mandrakes became a thing because regular mandrake is not competitive at all with all the rush builds in the game. 

Make the mandrake 7 energy to better reflect its performance at the legendary level. Arbiters, reapers, helios, tsunamis are all legendary weapons that can compete in competive play, there is no way in h3ll anyone can say mandrakes come close to being as competitive as these weapons I've mentioned above, unless were talking forward drakes which do not exist anymore. 

Edited by EVAN_WILLIAMS
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My Mandrake...

My shells in the sky they are spread.
Maybe it falls on someone's head.
I gain 3-5 points if they are dead.
Skill? What is this? Is it a bread?

11bypf.jpg

Edited by TulgaTheWhite
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Mandrake was "soooo powerful" that after its exploit was fixed it, just like Nests, started underperforming according to some people. We still need those stats to see if there are any truth to that.

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1 hour ago, lucashc90 said:

Mandrake was "soooo powerful" that after its exploit was fixed it, just like Nests, started underperforming according to some people. We still need those stats to see if there are any truth to that.

Like how many mandrakes are used in CW vs other legendaries, probably extremely low. 

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4 minutes ago, EVAN_WILLIAMS said:

Like how many mandrakes are used in CW vs other legendaries, probably extremely low. 

It's almost like a weapon that doesn't work well in a 4v4 but does in a 8v8 isn't going to be used where the format breaks it.

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27 minutes ago, SIGMA920 said:

It's almost like a weapon that doesn't work well in a 4v4 but does in a 8v8 isn't going to be used where the format breaks it.

LMAO dude if dual drakes don't work in coordinated teams they certainly don't work in pubstomp yolo queue.

Seriously I'm never stoned enough for any of your arguments to make sense.

Edited by Clebardman
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30 minutes ago, Clebardman said:

I'm never stoned enough

THEN GET HIGHER! The sky is the limit!

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1 hour ago, Clebardman said:

LMAO dude if dual drakes don't work in coordinated teams they certainly don't work in pubstomp yolo queue.

Seriously I'm never stoned enough for any of your arguments to make sense.

They don't work in clan wars because of the 4v4 format, not coordinated teams being a central part of clan wars. If a 1v1 format was introduced to the game then it'd similarly be a situation where weapons that work in a 8v8 don't work in a 1v1.

In 8v8, unless someone's flanking hard to pick off anyone with dangerous long range weapons like a mandrake or tsunamis from the very start on the majority of maps there'll be someone that you can put between you and an enemy. I've often held 3+ enemies off from successfully flanking with two mandrakes and 1 to 2 someone(s) to hold them at bay.

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3 hours ago, Clebardman said:

LMAO dude if dual drakes don't work in coordinated teams they certainly don't work in pubstomp yolo queue.

Seriously I'm never stoned enough for any of your arguments to make sense.

Consider if it is about them playing against coordinates teams as opposed to Random queue.

because when the enemy team is messy and disorganized, it becomes much easier to hit them with an area denial weapon. 

No clue why you would need to be stoned to get that, unless you’re a complete idiot. I know you’re not. 

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16 minutes ago, Jiffy_boi said:

Consider if it is about them playing against coordinates teams as opposed to Random queue.

because when the enemy team is messy and disorganized, it becomes much easier to hit them with an area denial weapon. 

No clue why you would need to be stoned to get that, unless you’re a complete idiot. I know you’re not. 

and since you can't count on team coordination, this means:
-you can't count on the presence of a doppler in your team
-you can't count on people defending you
-You can't count on people decloaking for you
-Most people are going to play yolo queue strong builds, and use yolo queue tactics, wich means hordes of wedgetables holding W and left clic in your direction, wich is typically the thing dual drakes can't do **** against without team coordination

You also can't see wtf the other team is playing, so have no idea of what they're going to try to do and where they'll go at the start of a game.

Edited by Clebardman
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21 hours ago, SIGMA920 said:

Mandrakes don't need more health, what you described is a weakness

Yes but in times of so many dogs and Griffon cabin that is a huge weakness, even in normal 8v8 fights , even in the middle of my team, dogs go straight for me, and before my team can react my mandrake is gone. I've got large container pieces and shoot trough ones all around.

21 hours ago, SIGMA920 said:

Moving the gun while firing throws off your shots and mandrakes are not pin point precision weapons anyway.

Yea, thats why i said while standing still, and yea not pin point precision i agree, but i would be nice if at least 1-2 shots land where you aim lol.

Blocking off areas is nice with the aim, but its inferior to the incinerator at that imo, and if i want to take out the lone dude that just stands there with his autocannons, my shots get nicely spread around him, and he moves position.. Also i shouldnt have to fuse it to be a bit accurate if im sacrificing armor for the torero cabin.

 

1 hour ago, Clebardman said:

and since you can't count on team coordination, this means:
-you can't count on the presence of a doppler in your team
-you can't count on people defending you
-You can't count on people decloaking for you
-Most people are going to play yolo queue strong builds, and use yolo queue tactics, wich means hordes of wedgetables holding W and left clic in your direction, wich is typically the thing dual drakes can't do **** against without team coordination

You also can't see wtf the other team is playing, so have no idea of what they're going to try to do and where they'll go at the start of a game.

Yes so the only way to be able to play and not get completely killed is with a team, that supports you, even though artillery should be more of a support weapon.
 

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50 minutes ago, Clebardman said:

-you can't count on the presence of a doppler in your team

The basic radars exist. I've fused my rare radar because it's used so often on my builds that use mandrakes.

51 minutes ago, Clebardman said:

-you can't count on people defending you

The job of a mandrake player isn't to rush to the fighting, it's to stay back and fire in support of the frontline.

1 hour ago, Clebardman said:

-You can't count on people decloaking for you

Someone using a mandrake shouldn't be concerned about decloaking at all.

1 hour ago, Clebardman said:

-Most people are going to play yolo queue strong builds, and use yolo queue tactics, wich means hordes of wedgetables holding W and left clic in your direction, wich is typically the thing dual drakes can't do **** against without team coordination

That for the most part plays into a mandrake player's favor if you don't expose yourself to them before someone else on your team.

1 hour ago, Clebardman said:

You also can't see wtf the other team is playing, so have no idea of what they're going to try to do and where they'll go at the start of a game.

Once you've played for long enough you can get a feel for how a team is going to go.

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9 minutes ago, Grimgork5 said:

Yes but in times of so many dogs and Griffon cabin that is a huge weakness, even in normal 8v8 fights , even in the middle of my team, dogs go straight for me, and before my team can react my mandrake is gone. I've got large container pieces and shoot trough ones all around.

If you're using mandrakes properly, the only times you're going nailed by dogs is if you're being hard flanked (At which point they've earned it.) or your team is utterly losing. As a piece of advice, don't get up close when you're using mandrakes.

14 minutes ago, Grimgork5 said:

Yea, thats why i said while standing still, and yea not pin point precision i agree, but i would be nice if at least 1-2 shots land where you aim lol.

Mandrakes are accurate, for the idea that artillery hits areas and not individual targets that is. That means that in relation with the majority of weapons they're inaccurate. 

16 minutes ago, Grimgork5 said:

Blocking off areas is nice with the aim, but its inferior to the incinerator at that imo, and if i want to take out the lone dude that just stands there with his autocannons, my shots get nicely spread around him, and he moves position.. Also i shouldnt have to fuse it to be a bit accurate if im sacrificing armor for the torero cabin.

Incinerators do not have the range, blast damage, or fear factor of mandrakes.

The accuracy of them is again, in terms of hitting an area not an individual.

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5 minutes ago, SIGMA920 said:

If you're using mandrakes properly, the only times you're going nailed by dogs is if you're being hard flanked (At which point they've earned it.) or your team is utterly losing. As a piece of advice, don't get up close when you're using mandrakes.

If i stay behind, randoms are always gonna leave you alone, someone is gonna come that i cant see cause i neither have Doppler nor verifier and pretty much one shot the mandrake.
If im rushing in with my team, my shots go wherever cause if i stop to shoot my team is long gone, and im still getting focused by the first, maybe second dog/wedge
Ability to have verifier would be cool to avoid those guys / call help a little earlier, even when its rarely answered, another cabin than torero without it shooting into another continent would be awesome.

Also awesome piece of advice lol wouldnt have thought of that , thanks

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On 11/16/2020 at 2:32 AM, SIGMA920 said:

Once at the edge of the crater, you can fire beyond the opposite edge with ease. They're range is just fine.

Mandrake can not shoot other side map. Mandrake range is too short. My experience.  

Mandrake should shoot behind other side edge too.  That is very hard job today. 

Shooting edge to edge. Mandrake need range buff.  

It is odd range special weapon can not shoot long range enough.    

Same range issue happen few other maps too.

 

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1 hour ago, Grimgork5 said:

If i stay behind, randoms are always gonna leave you alone, someone is gonna come that i cant see cause i neither have Doppler nor verifier and pretty much one shot the mandrake.

If im rushing in with my team, my shots go wherever cause if i stop to shoot my team is long gone, and im still getting focused by the first, maybe second dog/wedge

Staying behind your team doesn't always result in you being left alone.

Moving up constantly is a stupid idea. You have a long range weapon, use it's long range.

1 hour ago, Grimgork5 said:

Ability to have verifier would be cool to avoid those guys / call help a little earlier, even when its rarely answered, another cabin than torero without it shooting into another continent would be awesome.

Using a verifier on a dual mandrake would be pointless compared to the other combinations you could use with a 7 energy mandrake.

Mandrakes are not inaccurate enough to justify an accuracy buff given their role. If they were like cannons, then yes they would deserve and accuracy buff but they're not used for targeting individuals.

13 minutes ago, Santonik said:

Mandrake can not shoot other side map. Mandrake range is too short. My experience.  

Mandrake should shoot behind other side edge too.  That is very hard job today. 

Shooting edge to edge. Mandrake need range buff.  

It is odd range special weapon can not shoot long range enough.    

Same range issue happen few other maps too.

 

It literally can. It's not lacking in range unless you're doing something wrong.

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