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Low Effort to Make Patrol/Mission Bots Instantly Smarter


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Bots in patrols and missions are so unrealistically robotic that it's just boring to play against them. But there are very simple ways involving very little effort to make bots much more human-like:

  1. Never let bots defend their base in "Assault" game mode. I've never seen a human player staying behind to defend their base in "Assault" - so remove the code that instructs bots to defend - and the bots are instantly more similar to humans and hence more fun to play with.
  2. Have bots in patrols/missions target enemy weapons, not cabs, or if an enemy car is fully melee - have bots consider target chassis instead (if they're lower durability than the melee weapons). Obviously bots in PvE content (such as raids/invasions) should still continue to target cabs; no need to make the raids any harder than they are.
  3. Effective and varied bot car designs. Currently bots draw their car designs from a very limited and fixed pool of available designs, many of which are also not very effective. Instead, the servers should record the blueprints of not-in-party MVPs say for the past week, then just use one of those designs (but filter out any blueprints with Contact 2M as bots can't use fused cars, or melee weapons that bots can't use). That would make bot car designs a lot more varied - and hence less predictable and thus fun, and also effective at the same time.
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On 12/28/2020 at 3:44 PM, h0zz said:

Now explain how can the devs make money directly from this ?

Game will be more fun and enjoyable = more players will want to spend more time in game = more players will click on Shop and buy items = more profit for devs. Agreed?

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-Working on AI
-No profits to make

 

Yeah I'd have detailled suggestions on the topic, but I don't wanna lose more times than devs do on the subject.

 

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55 minutes ago, Trajos said:

Game will be more fun and enjoyable = more players will want to spend more time in game = more players will click on Shop and buy items = more profit for devs. Agreed?

That's not directly ,  and it would be an huge effort to change this AI that relies only on the radar to aim at cabins.

You can't even rework this low IQ pre-alpha like AI to do anything else , it would need a new system from the 0.

They could and should regularly change the bots blueprints.

But that does't make any money either :dntknw: 

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Just now, h0zz said:

That's not directly ,  and it would be an huge effort to change this AI that relies only on the radar to aim at cabins.

You can't even rework this low IQ pre-alpha like AI to do anything else , it would need a new system from the 0.

They could and should regularly change the bots blueprints.

But that does't make any money either :dntknw: 

You can still put band aids on it, and given how hard it's bleeding, it'd be a drastic improvement.

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55 minutes ago, Clebardman said:

You can still put band aids on it, and given how hard it's bleeding, it'd be a drastic improvement.

They could improve the path finding for example and replace the robocop aim with humanized aim , but I doubt there's anyone working on crossout with these kind of skills

Compared to what the devs have done on the last years this would be an epic task.

+RUS servers don't have bots or only 1 or 2 , so non-rus problems who cares :dntknw: :dntknw:

 

 

 

Edited by h0zz
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@h0zz Well... Even putting 1s delay on deployment of turrets, and putting melee behavior right under cannon behavior in the priority list would make them massively less stupid.

Then you can copy-paste the regular run & gun behavior, double its range, halve the speed of the car, and bam you got an AC/plasma emitter behavior, so bots stop circling around you too fast for their weapons to follow.

I never scripted anything but I'm sure I can do it if Targem sends me the files lmao. Just gotta copy-paste a few lines here and there.

Edited by Clebardman
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50 minutes ago, Clebardman said:

 putting 1s delay on deployment of turrets
 

This would be relatively easy , but making the bots have some kind of over 20IQ when they deployed the turrets (when they only have turrets) would be impossible with the current system.

They just drop mines once an go directly to cap base (like every bot when they run out of ammo\get stripped)

I think this is the hardest to do.

They could change to ramming mode (when bots get out of ammo\stripped) until a certain hp% and when under it just go into suicide mode and try to detonate near enemies

But for turrets\indirect fire weapons the current system does't work (mandrake bots ramming each other on the center of the map)

57 minutes ago, Clebardman said:

double its range

This is due to the bots relying on the radars for enemy detection and not on line of sight , they only use LOS to decide if an enemy is behind cover.

They could rework the system to rely more on LOS and use modified range version of the radars to extend the firing range to improve certain weapons.(since bots have outdated parts with different stats this would be easy)

But if the bot is alone without a radar on his build nothing would change this way (only if the could change the standard cabin "radar" range) dunno if this is possible :dntknw:

1 hour ago, Clebardman said:

halve the speed of the car, , so bots stop circling around you too fast for their weapons to follow.

This would be easy to implement but a bit hard to fine tune 

 

1 hour ago, Clebardman said:


I never scripted anything but I'm sure I can do it if Targem sends me the files lmao. Just gotta copy-paste a few lines here and there.

AI is usually done trough behavior trees ,  xo tree only has 3 branches and one is broken :lol:

If I was the devs and I cared I wold just scrap this 10€$ AI system and actually do one (this would have more load on the celeron  servers tho)

Me personally would like bots removed and the Squad mode to comeback :my_precious:

 

 

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On 12/28/2020 at 10:44 AM, h0zz said:

Now explain how can the devs make money directly from this ?

Have players pool their coins to buy bots for their team before each game starts. Better bots cost more coin.

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On 12/30/2020 at 1:29 PM, h0zz said:

... it would be an huge effort to change this AI that relies only on the radar to aim at cabins. ...

If you don't know how to code - yes it would be a huge effort to learn a programming language, then make silly bugs in your code, then learn how to debug the bugs, then debug the bugs.

For any programmer that's worth their salt though this would be a 1 day job with coding/testing/releasing.

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14 minutes ago, Trajos said:

For any programmer that's worth their salt though this would be a 1 day job with coding/testing/releasing.

You know nothing about programming , AI , or developing \releasing anything with a statement like this  :lol:

Ask any borderlands 2077 coder 

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1 hour ago, h0zz said:

You know nothing about programming , AI , or developing \releasing anything with a statement like this  :lol:

At least nothing about the last two, agreed. ;)

However:

1 hour ago, Trajos said:

For any programmer that's worth their salt though this would be a 1 day job with coding/testing/releasing.

Actually it would be a 0-day job since the bots already aim at cabins. :DD

Also regarding your #3 - I doubt that would lead to more variety. More likely all bots would be using the same meta weapons/builds most of the time, just with their 100% accuracy. What could possibly go wrong?

Edited by Snib
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3 minutes ago, Snib said:

Actually it would be a 0-day job since the bots already aim at cabins. :DD

Because coding an Aimbot (not even humanized) is some kind of a challenge?

 

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2 hours ago, h0zz said:

Because coding an Aimbot (not even humanized) is some kind of a challenge?

My post said that no work has to be done since the bots already do what the post claimed would be complicated AI work. And the "aimbot" in this game consists of having the bots aim at the center of the cabin, the coordinates of which it knows; don't know why you were talking about radar - the bots run on the server, and the server has all the information, there's no rocket science involved. It would be equally trivial to use the coordinates of the guns instead, which is why I only agreed with the last two parts of your statement.

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6 minutes ago, Snib said:

 don't know why you were talking about radar

The you should go test and learn how bots actually know where you are :014:

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2 minutes ago, h0zz said:

The you should go test and learn how bots actually know where you are :014:

Lulz, ok then, 2020 has shown that people will believe what they want to believe so I won't bother you with an argument. Carry on. ;)

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2 minutes ago, Snib said:

Lulz, ok then, 2020 has shown that people will believe what they want to believe so I won't bother you with an argument. Carry on. ;)

Back at you person that does't test stuff and thinks that what he thinks based on nothing is right :014:

Edited by h0zz
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Posted (edited)
On 1/2/2021 at 3:23 PM, h0zz said:

You know nothing about programming , AI , or developing \releasing anything with a statement like this  :lol:

I've coded games and AI for 5 years, and been in software development industry for over 10 years.

What could be simpler? You replace fireTarget = enemy.cab.location with fireTarget = enemy.weapons[random(enemy.weapons.length())].location - it's just 1 line change.

Edited by Trajos
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On 12/28/2020 at 4:44 PM, h0zz said:

Now explain how can the devs make money directly from this ?

As sad as this is, it's true and funny :)
Maybe these changes would come in a pack? You can buy 5 matches of smarter bots for 5 dollars.

Edited by MrSplatter
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6 minutes ago, Trajos said:

I've coded games and AI for 5 years, and been in software development industry for over 10 years.

What could be simpler? You replace fireTarget = enemy.cab.location with fireTarget = enemy.weapons[random(enemy.weapons.length())].location - it's just 1 line change.

You know how a bot never misses? And how dead set he can be to chase you around the map until you die? 
Would it be fun that you roll out at the start of the game, and BOOM, a cannon shot from far away hits dead center where your machine gun is? You could still go and detonate at someone.

Something needs to be done, yes, but their pin point accuracy aimed at weapons? Maybe not the best way to go. And if they code them to miss, it's trying to simulate a human factor, and would probably just make them bad.

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5 minutes ago, MrSplatter said:

Something needs to be done, yes, but their pin point accuracy aimed at weapons? Maybe not the best way to go. And if they code them to miss, it's trying to simulate a human factor, and would probably just make them bad.

You talk so much about something that's a trivial change again fireTarget = fireTarget + Vector(random(-1, 1), random(-1, 1), random(-1, 1))

But I actually want to be challenged by bots, for now they're so stupid I'd be ok with their 100% accuracy at attempting to degun me :D

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On 12/28/2020 at 5:15 PM, Trajos said:

Bots in patrols and missions are so unrealistically robotic that it's just boring to play against them. But there are very simple ways involving very little effort to make bots much more human-like:

  1. Never let bots defend their base in "Assault" game mode. I've never seen a human player staying behind to defend their base in "Assault" - so remove the code that instructs bots to defend - and the bots are instantly more similar to humans and hence more fun to play with.
  2. Have bots in patrols/missions target enemy weapons, not cabs, or if an enemy car is fully melee - have bots consider target chassis instead (if they're lower durability than the melee weapons). Obviously bots in PvE content (such as raids/invasions) should still continue to target cabs; no need to make the raids any harder than they are.
  3. Effective and varied bot car designs. Currently bots draw their car designs from a very limited and fixed pool of available designs, many of which are also not very effective. Instead, the servers should record the blueprints of not-in-party MVPs say for the past week, then just use one of those designs (but filter out any blueprints with Contact 2M as bots can't use fused cars, or melee weapons that bots can't use). That would make bot car designs a lot more varied - and hence less predictable and thus fun, and also effective at the same time.

Essentially, another "make raids harder" thread..No.

Contrary to what you whink making raids harder will not contribute to your happiness, it will just make it a more frustrating chore to gather the necessary materials to craft the weapons that you want to use in PVP which then makes you happy (supposedly).
I will explain again that making raids harder also contributes to less players getting rewards, so prepare for the "RAIDS ARE TOO HARD" storm that will come if someone implements your ideas, plus the drop of player pop out of frustration.

Even pve-focused games like world of warcraft succumbed to making versions of their raids easier and more accessble to expand their player base.

Please stop the trend of trying to make chores creative, they will never be because they will always be chores.

If you want them to get creative, then weapons should be raid rewards. As long as you get limited resources, raids should be fast and braindead, and they are not as much ase people portray them to be.

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43 minutes ago, Trajos said:

You talk so much about something that's a trivial change again fireTarget = fireTarget + Vector(random(-1, 1), random(-1, 1), random(-1, 1))

But I actually want to be challenged by bots, for now they're so stupid I'd be ok with their 100% accuracy at attempting to degun me :D

Let's say the devs do make them target weapons but keep the 100% accuracy.
I can't say what you like or not, it's your game ofc,  but many would NOT be ok with it when it starts happening game after game.

Now I respect you wanting to change the bots to something better, we all have ideas about it. But speaking of bots, for now I would be happy if at least random bots in PVP don't stay guarding the base, so both teams get equal amount of bot canon fodder rushing out. So both teams have equal amount of combatants participating.

Edited by MrSplatter
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