Bad Game Design : Retchers and Porcs

[vertibird09 94]

Pve is part of the game as well as pvp and clan wars. About %95 of the raids have at least 1 retcher build, %50 of the raids have 2 retcher builds. In any online competitive game if only some op weapons are used in nearly every match , this means only one thing: Bad Game Design. 

4x porcs owners please don't write here thanks.

[Sir_Stallsalot 294]

I invoke the immortal words "Git Gud"

I raid everyday, and I beat Retchers and Porcs about half the time using either Machine Guns or Shotguns; depending on what daily task I have. Either way, it's a difference of about +/- 50pts. Retchers and Porcs are not the end-all terminators so many people seem to think that they are.

OMG, Retchers do more damage than Avengers?! That's so wrong! No; it really isn't. How about you build a better vehicle for raids instead of crying about Retchers?

Edited December 29, 2020 by Sir_Stallsalot

[vertibird09 94]

You didnt explain why are retchers used nearly in every raid if they are not easy mode? 

[ZeusssS 1,507]

[vertibird09 94]

2 minutes ago, ZeusssS said:

You should sell your retchers.

[xCrossFaith 7,442]

The problem with this weapons is how damn small maps are, for a game like this, specially if we keep the lore in mind, the Adventure map should be the standard

 

Also I mean.. Since when raids are supposed to be "enjoyable" and not get that chore ddone as soon as possible?

[vertibird09 94]

Here is the solution: Make retchers and porcs deal %40 less damage to raiders and problem solved!

[ZeusssS 1,507]

22 minutes ago, vertibird09 said:

You should sell your retchers.

I can't, they're fused 

 

Anyways, may i ask what are you using in raids?

Edited December 29, 2020 by ZeusssS

[Sir_Stallsalot 294]

6 minutes ago, vertibird09 said:

You didnt explain why are retchers used nearly in every raid if they are not easy mode? 

Couple of reasons. Retchers have high damage that is balanced by their extremely low durability and large size. However; that is completely irrelevant in raids because you can cheese the raiders by placing guns on your head and they'll almost never get shot off. You can bring 4 Wasps to raids and one-shot any raider easier than Retchers for the same reason that their low durability does not matter. The other reason is that Retchers are mostly useless outside of raids, so obviously they'll be used there. Bringing them to PvP is folly.
 

1 minute ago, vertibird09 said:

Here is the solution: Make retchers and porcs deal %40 less damage to raiders and problem solved!

Why? Why would you call for people's expensive weapons to be nerfed just because you don't have the skills and/or equipment to keep up with them?

[vertibird09 94]

I use 3x minigun 1x aurora build, goblin build, harpy and dusk pyre builds in raids. 

[vertibird09 94]

Stallsalot , as you may know retchers don't require any skill ,  you just press left click and all enemies are gone.  Those weapons shall be nerfed.

[vertibird09 94]

You still didnt explain why are retchers used nearly every raid? If they werent so OP we would see them in raids no more than any other weapon. This is bad game Design: 1 op weapon used by everyone otherwise it puts you in disadvantage. I am not a sheep so I dont use them. 

[Sir_Stallsalot 294]

2 minutes ago, vertibird09 said:

Stallsalot , as you may know retchers don't require any skill ,  you just press left click and all enemies are gone.  Those weapons shall be nerfed.

So tell me then, how exactly are machine guns and shotguns more skillful?

With Retchers you have to aim above and ahead while predicting the enemy's movement. You don't do anything but left click with MG/Shotguns. Get Retchers and try it out yourself. I guarantee you won't hit a damn thing at first.

 

I explained exactly why they're used often in raids. Go read my post again.

[vertibird09 94]

26 minutes ago, Sir_Stallsalot said:

So tell me then, how exactly are machine guns and shotguns more skillful?

With Retchers you have to aim above and ahead while predicting the enemy's movement. You don't do anything but left click with MG/Shotguns. Get Retchers and try it out yourself. I guarantee you won't hit a damn thing at first.

 

I explained exactly why they're used often in raids. Go read my post again.

You said yourself people cheese raids by using them because they wont be targeted. People use them because its cheesy weapon for raids. Because of that I propose that nerf retchers and porcs in raid only. I am really tired of seeing half of team use retchers in raids. 

I want diversity.

[Sir_Stallsalot 294]

2 minutes ago, vertibird09 said:

You said yourself people cheese raids by using them because they wont be targeted.

That has absolutely nothing to do with Retchers themselves. Any weapon mounted high won't be targeted. Doesn't matter if they're Retchers or Chords.

 

Here I finally understood that I'm either dealing with a window licker, a troll, or both.

[ZeusssS 1,507]

56 minutes ago, vertibird09 said:

I use 3x minigun 1x aurora build, goblin build, harpy and dusk pyre builds in raids. 

3 miniguns and 1 aurora, yes. pyres, no. don't use that

You should be able to make as much work as a retcher/ porc, with miniguns

 

48 minutes ago, vertibird09 said:

You still didnt explain why are retchers used nearly every raid?

I see a few weps which will stand out as efficient weps in high powerscore raids. Porcs, retchers, arbiters, helios

Since porcs are relics and their price is high, what's the cheapest setup for raids? 2 retchers? 4 helioses? or 3-4 arbiters?

 

54 minutes ago, vertibird09 said:

as you may know retchers don't require any skill ,  you just press left click and all enemies are gone

Tell me a weapon used in raids which requires more skill than retchers. And for the sake of logic, do not say mandrake or cricket

Edited December 29, 2020 by ZeusssS

[h0zz 1,937]

Use pyralid hover with 300hp if you got 2 hands and at least 6-7 fingers

[Sir_Stallsalot 294]

46 minutes ago, vertibird09 said:

Toxicity of yours mean I am right and you have nothing to add to the argument. So dismissed.

I called you a troll because you obviously are one with the "arguments" you're pulling up like implying that only Retchers won't be targeted by raider, and not other weapons; as well as saying that Retchers take less skill to use than MGs and Shotguns.

31 minutes ago, vertibird09 said:

Why do I use retchers like everybody and their mother in raids?

I can answer that only for myself. I bought them at the start of this Gronch event mostly because they generate so many salty tears in raids; as this thread and many like it demonstrate. I didn't need them to score top place in a raid 90% of the time, and I honestly don't even like using them because of the effort involved in using them... but I just don't taste the tears on my tongue as well when I get 1,800pts with my MGs, as I do when I get just a meager 1,600pts with Retchers.

I have no idea what it is specifically about Retchers that makes weaker players cry so heavily, but that's the only good thing about them for me. Otherwise, I'd never bother with them in raids, and would stick to my easy-to-use MGs and shotguns that outperform Retchers most of the time.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Sir_Stallsalot

[Snib 265]

2 hours ago, Sir_Stallsalot said:

I raid everyday, and I beat Retchers and Porcs about half the time using either Machine Guns or Shotguns; depending on what daily task I have.

Unless you mean you flip the retchers with your shotgun wedge first I call complete BS on that. The bots won't even be alive by the time you reach them with your shotgun if the retchers do their job.

AOE damage is king in raids because you get points for destroying parts as well, there's no way you beat that with either machine guns or shotguns. The only advantage shotguns have is that - with a corresponding build - you can "shield" the bots from your team mates.

[Sir_Stallsalot 294]

28 minutes ago, Snib said:

Unless you mean you flip the retchers with your shotgun wedge first I call complete BS on that. The bots won't even be alive by the time you reach them with your shotgun if the retchers do their job.

AOE damage is king in raids because you get points for destroying parts as well, there's no way you beat that with either machine guns or shotguns. The only advantage shotguns have is that - with a corresponding build - you can "shield" the bots from your team mates.

What kind of scum do you think I am? I never willingly interfere with my teammates.
Well... except for that one time about two years ago when I pinned a well-known griefer to the wall for a solid 6-7 minutes while my other teammate did the raid on his own . Yes; there was a time where raids could be griefed preventing you from finishing the raid at all. Dark times.

Shotguns have more than enough damage and range to kill raiders before a Retcher's painfully slow projectiles reach them. I don't camp a corridor in Terminal-45. I play Frontier Defense where there is enough space for all kinds of maneuvers, and enough raiders to go around for everyone to kill. Retchers can't be everywhere at once. Instead of crying "Retchers are taking my points!", open your eyes and take out the raiders that your teammate isn't targeting.

If you can't top Retchers in raids with MGs or Shotguns; don't accuse others of being unable to. Apparently you're doing something wrong.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Sir_Stallsalot

[Clebardman 6,439]

3 hours ago, vertibird09 said:

You didnt explain why are retchers used nearly in every raid if they are not easy mode? 

I own a pair or Retchers and use a triple Whirl build in raids, I also have no problem with Retchers and Porcs.

A Retcher or Porc guy needs to drive straight up to its target to do anything. If you can't clean a bunch of lunatics while the big guns drag their **** around, that's on you. Yes, it's easy to spam Retchers and Porcs. If you're expecting to play poorly with MGs and do better than Retchers or Porcs, lol. Maybe pick a weap wich requires zero aiming too?

Basically what h0zz said, it's good for people who don't have two hands and 10 fingers. Normally constituted persons can do the same by aiming at their targets.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Clebardman

[Snib 265]

28 minutes ago, Sir_Stallsalot said:

If you can't top Retchers in raids with MGs or Shotguns; don't accuse others of being unable to. Apparently you're doing something wrong.

I use plasma emitters and I've never been outscored by MGs or shotguns (but certainly by retchers), but more power to you if you somehow manage that.

[lucashc90 10,608]

3 hours ago, vertibird09 said:

You didnt explain why are retchers used nearly in every raid if they are not easy mode? 

Simple: the A.I. is crap and enemies are headless chickens with bullet sponge properties, so of course thatspamming explosives and area denial weapons would be more effective than most other weapons.

You don't need to nerf the weapons, you need better A.I. AND bot designs.

Can we, at least, agree that nerfing weapons based on PvE is not only pety but extremely counter productive towards the game?

Edited December 29, 2020 by lucashc90

[Clebardman 6,439]

1 minute ago, Snib said:

I use plasma emitters and I've never been outscored by MGs or shotguns (but certainly by retchers), but more power to you if you somehow manage that.

Welp, your weapon is about as short-ranged than a Retcher in raids. OFC you get outscored.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Clebardman

[Kehich 429]

1 hour ago, vertibird09 said:

The difference is so huge

Yes, because they are different weapons, machine guns and grenade launchers. Both have their strong sides and disadvantages. What's your point? You want your Chords to be stronger than any other weapon just because you refuse to use other weapons?