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Why do most Crossosout players hate heavy cabins so much? A serious poll.


_davekko_
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Why do most Crossosout players hate heavy cabins/vehicles so much up to a point to not let them do any positive change to them?  

42 members have voted

  1. 1. do you hate/dislike heavy cabins/vehicles?

    • Yes
      6
    • no
      33
    • The Earth orbits around the Sun around speeds of an about 107,000 kilometers per hour.
      3
  2. 2. if you answered yes, to the first question, then why? (multiple choice)

    • i answered no.
      29
    • Things with slow speed shouldn't have a place in this game.
      2
    • They don't fit within the game.
      2
    • The game will basically become full of bunker builds.
      0
    • TTK will be higher than current.
      0
    • Fear of the game coming back to what it was to when humpback and jawbreaker were 12 energy.
      0
    • Heavy builds are not fun to play against, nor with.
      4
    • Small and Nimble vehicles should be the standard, heavy and big should only be an option for cosmetic use, and just to say that we have the option to.
      1
    • they wouldn't work in real life, wo why should them here?
      0
    • Blame Dog.
      3
    • Blame hoover.
      5
    • NO
      3
    • The game should stay where it is, no change is needed.
      1


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I've always noticed, that it is not that heavy cabins/vehicles are not only just generally disliked by many, but sometimes even hated, and sometimes, wished by some to be removed from the game as a whole...?

the worst example of an situation like this were people saying that the machinist is overpowered and asking to nerf it... im still to find a use to my upgraded machinist.... other than salvaging it offcourse.

want more examples of that behavior of people afraid of heavier vehicles? go into the new welding strength tread... it is full of those people...

a "bunker" build most of the time only survives 4-5 or sometimes 7 more seconds than a regular one in combat, so why even be afraid of them, they are big, slow, easy to hit, have fewer weapons and modules. 

so i decided to pick up some of the reasons i think people don't want heavy cabins to ever get changed in a positive way

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I personally don't hate heavy cabins, just slow builds (not every heavy cabin means slow). I'm very used to and i enjoy games with good mobility (i'm a fps guy), since u can do alot of stuff with good mobility. Mobility opens up new possibilities for more complex strategies. Sitting and doing almost nothing (like spiders used to do long ago, before implementing big ram, or what hovers with kapkans do nowadays) is not my cup of tea.

 

And high mobility also means you can be more active, you can get involved more into a battle (another reason why i hate drone and turret gameplay)

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to be fair they're all pretty much useless except Cohort, Echo, and maybe Icebox. Especially in PVP where they're generally not worth the PS. People really complain about Machinist? xD

Buff Yokozuna >.>

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i dont dislike them, but i dont use them, since they need a buff as a whole and i like bein fastish

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Because so many players are meta slaves.

I use heavy builds, medium builds, and light builds. I use all kinds of weapons, both in mixed builds and pure builds.

The problem? So many players are unwilling to step out of their comfort zone or experiment at all. Heavy builds aren't bad currently (They have their disadvantages and advantages over medium or light builds.) and they do survive in battles for longer than medium or light builds. My heavy walkers are how I counter dogs and other rush builds because they can't kill me very quickly. My heavy tank builds using tracks will dish out as much damage as they take and that's because I've designed them to fill the role of a tank while also armoring them in a way that they can't be easily disarmed. Other players could do the same but don't because they want to stick with what they're used to and what they know works.

56 minutes ago, _davekko_ said:

want more examples of that behavior of people afraid of heavier vehicles? go into the new welding strength tread... it is full of those people...

a "bunker" build most of the time only survives 4-5 or sometimes 7 more seconds than a regular one in combat, so why even be afraid of them, they are big, slow, easy to hit, have fewer weapons and modules. 

so i decided to pick up some of the reasons i think people don't want heavy cabins to ever get changed in a positive way

No one in that thread is afraid of more heavy builds, they're afraid of healthbricks which is a valid concern. You can make heavy builds that aren't healthbricks, they're not one and the same.

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1 minute ago, SIGMA920 said:

Because so many players are meta slaves.

I use heavy builds, medium builds, and light builds. I use all kinds of weapons, both in mixed builds and pure builds.

The problem? So many players are unwilling to step out of their comfort zone or experiment at all. Heavy builds aren't bad currently (They have their disadvantages and advantages over medium or light builds.) and they do survive in battles for longer than medium or light builds. My heavy walkers are how I counter dogs and other rush builds because they can't kill me very quickly. My heavy tank builds using tracks will dish out as much damage as they take and that's because I've designed them to fill the role of a tank while also armoring them in a way that they can't be easily disarmed. Other players could do the same but don't because they want to stick with what they're used to and what they know works.

lemme guess, heavy spaced armor?

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You need to add “Heavy builds are only as strong as your guns”

it don’t mater if you have a million HP, as soon as your guns are gone your dead.

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12 minutes ago, Brighty_07 said:

lemme guess, heavy spaced armor?

No, a mix of spaced and compact. You've seen the type of spaced armor I use.

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25 minutes ago, RoughMonkey said:

You need to add “Heavy builds are only as strong as your guns”

it don’t mater if you have a million HP, as soon as your guns are gone your dead.

in this particular post im basically asking the reasons why people are so afraid of developers buffing heavy cabins even in small aspects, because people will go rampage everytime anyone sugests a buff to heavy cabins

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12 minutes ago, SIGMA920 said:

No, a mix of spaced and compact. You've seen the type of spaced armor I use.

in a sense it is heavy spaced armor, cause the only other ways i can think of interpreting spaced armor are spaced armor using heavy parts or just normal spaced armor but expanded further around the build

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17 minutes ago, Brighty_07 said:

in a sense it is heavy spaced armor, cause the only other ways i can think of interpreting spaced armor are spaced armor using heavy parts or just normal spaced armor but expanded further around the build

I guess kinda? I don't really consider it heavy spaced armor because I could do the same thing with medium armor even if it'd lost some of it's effectiveness. When I make use of spaced armor I always make sure to put it where it's most important to protect because of that, the parts limit isn't high enough for me to completely enclose a build in it.

24 minutes ago, _davekko_ said:

in this particular post im basically asking the reasons why people are so afraid of developers buffing heavy cabins even in small aspects, because people will go rampage everytime anyone sugests a buff to heavy cabins

A buff like what? A 5km/h max speed buff to all heavy cabins is something no one would complain about because it'd be literally unnoticeable. Something like adding welding points into the game goes away from buffing heavy cabins to outright swapping the meta to healthbricks (Not to heavy builds, to healthbricks. A medium cabin like the steppe spider could be used to make a healthbrick if you wanted to do so.) while giving all heavy cabins the point of energy back would be doing far more than a small buff.

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19 minutes ago, SIGMA920 said:

I guess kinda? I don't really consider it heavy spaced armor because I could do the same thing with medium armor even if it'd lost some of it's effectiveness. When I make use of spaced armor I always make sure to put it where it's most important to protect because of that, the parts limit isn't high enough for me to completely enclose a build in it.

A buff like what? A 5km/h max speed buff to all heavy cabins is something no one would complain about because it'd be literally unnoticeable. Something like adding welding points into the game goes away from buffing heavy cabins to outright swapping the meta to healthbricks (Not to heavy builds, to healthbricks. A medium cabin like the steppe spider could be used to make a healthbrick if you wanted to do so.) while giving all heavy cabins the point of energy back would be doing far more than a small buff.

fixing stone deaf's level 15 perk to buff machinist, and giving machinist more weld points are some minor adjustments which would help without making it overpowered, cohort, humpback, and bastion already have hans's ability...

 

but tons of people here told that hte machinist perk would be overpowered, and it would be the most OP cabin on the game, and then it just ended up being the most useless legendary cabin...

 

when a heavy cabin is on the talk, everyone just goes on panic, that is my problem...

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1 minute ago, _davekko_ said:

fixing stone deaf's level 15 perk to buff machinist, and giving machinist more weld points are some minor adjustments which would help without making it overpowered, cohort, humpback, and bastion already have hans's ability...

The co-driver change would be a good one and so would the machinist getting more weld points so long as it isn't frontal weld points. The machinist lacks those by design.

3 minutes ago, _davekko_ said:

but tons of people here told that hte machinist perk would be overpowered, and it would be the most OP cabin on the game, and then it just ended up being the most useless legendary cabin...

Who told you that? The machinist's perk is only ever going to be situational at best. Maybe it'd get more use with weapons like the Kaiju or Yongwang but even then it's not much of a problem.

3 minutes ago, _davekko_ said:

when a heavy cabin is on the talk, everyone just goes on panic, that is my problem...

That's just the idiots in the room crying that the sky is falling down, anyone with a focus on the actual issues won't be crying because a heavy cabin is being added or buffed.

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2 hours ago, _davekko_ said:

fixing stone deaf's level 15 perk to buff machinist, and giving machinist more weld points are some minor adjustments which would help without making it overpowered, cohort, humpback, and bastion already have hans's ability...

 

but tons of people here told that hte machinist perk would be overpowered, and it would be the most OP cabin on the game, and then it just ended up being the most useless legendary cabin...

 

when a heavy cabin is on the talk, everyone just goes on panic, that is my problem...

I'm definitely onboard with the machinist +5kmh with Stone Deaf lvl 15. My only problem tho is that Yokozuna and Icebox going 65 kmh is kinda moot since every 60kmh cab goes 65 kmh with the right co-driver... With Icebox you'll probably want Stone-Deaf so that's not too bad, but Yokozuna's really crap when you consider Cohort goes 65kmh with Hans.

This could be extended to Bulldog too, who could give +500 tonnage to Aggressor like it does to Growl.

Also I'm just gonna drop this here, I'd be really cool if Founders and Syndicate could get a co-driver. We'll never get the co-driver rework, so we migth as well get a couple new ones to play with.

Edited by Clebardman
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The poll shows the opposite of your assumption.  It shows most crossout players are fine with heavy cabs

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4 minutes ago, Clebardman said:

Also I'm just gonna drop this here, I'd be really cool if Founders and Syndicate could get a co-driver. We'll never get the co-driver rework, so we migth as well get a couple new ones to play with.

While potentially interesting what kind of co-driver bonuses would they give?

A founder's co-driver would be share a lot of bonuses with Jade since so many of their weapons both old and new are energy weapons. The new generator is niche enough compared to the Apollo that I can't see a generator perk, there's only a single cabin in the faction as well.

A syndicate co-driver would have the same problems except even worse as their weapons are primarily drone based with the exception being the Kaiju.

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43 minutes ago, tenshiijin said:

The poll shows the opposite of your assumption.  It shows most crossout players are fine with heavy cabs

what is the percentage of the playerbase that uses the forum?

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1 hour ago, SIGMA920 said:

While potentially interesting what kind of co-driver bonuses would they give?

A founder's co-driver would be share a lot of bonuses with Jade since so many of their weapons both old and new are energy weapons. The new generator is niche enough compared to the Apollo that I can't see a generator perk, there's only a single cabin in the faction as well.

A syndicate co-driver would have the same problems except even worse as their weapons are primarily drone based with the exception being the Kaiju.

Both co-drivers would potentially have some similarities with Jade/Perseus because energy weapons/drones, but I don't see it as a bad thing. It gives more variety and different options depending on what you want to play, and could have their own twist.

Founders could buff energy weapon in a different way than Jade, like Hans does with reloading weapons compared to SD. The unique twist would be to buff weapons with a charging mechanism, and it could have a couple generic/cab/movement part bonuses focusing on tankyness.
I quickly threw together a list that is non-exhaustive/merely a rough sketch rather than actual suggestions:
-+5% reloading speed for energy weapons (to differentiate it from Jade)
-+5% charging speed for weapons with a charging mechanic. Wether it should includes Nests/Kaiju/Snowfalls/Masts is up to debate, but I see no reason not. More diversity.
-+1 drone launch. It's crap with Anni and actually decent with other drones/can be built around, so I think that one's pretty good.
-+500 mass limit or +5kmh for Omnibox. Not tonnage plz it's only used on hovers rn.
-+5% durability for Array wheels. Maybe Bigrams too? (Bigrams are strong rn but typically don't use the stuff that got bonuses so far so I don't see it as a big risk balance-wise).
-Throw a bonus to Verifier in, and a couple new goodies that feel Founders, like a cab power lvl 15 bonus.

Syndicate would probably be a drone co-driver, with a pinch of grenade launchers for Yongwang, but so far is hard to give an identity to, especially since Targem trolled hard by tagging Jubokko, which is clearly a turret thrower, as a minelayer, and tagged Yongwang which is a minelayer as a grenade launcher xD I feel the faction has a strong mobility theme that gives good opportunities for something new in terms of co-drivers, but there's probably not enough to make a decent co-driver rn, granted. Things it should give IMO
-+5% drones reloading speed. Different from other co-drivers, while fitting the Yaoguai drone throwing gameplay better than raw damage.
-+3% damage/radius or something like that to grenade launchers would be nice to have. Gotta stay careful not to give too many bonuses to Retcher builds in the co-driver tho.
-+5 kmh to Yoko. Yokozuna really needs help since almost every 60 kmh cab gets +5 from Hans (and machinist should get +5 from SD)
-a Jubokko bonus, for sure. Maybe Kaiju/Yongwang too.
-an Omni bonus.
-some unique mobility bonus that makes sense for the Syndicate, like a slight mass reduction to weaps/modules/movement parts, and/or +3% power while drifting.

Clearly not enough to make a co-driver so far... which is sad because Yokozuna NEEDS the +5kmh or some other significant co-driver perk to counteract the influence of Hans. Lets wait until Syndicate gets another BP I guess (which would hopefully define the faction more clearly. RN it's "the drone guys who try to drift on Omni wheels with purple paint". Not very serious.)

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19 minutes ago, _davekko_ said:

what is the percentage of the playerbase that uses the forum?

Good point. I can't tell if  the few personalities that still persist here represent the populous. Maybe?.

I don't have anything against heavy cabins, but I don't like any of the ones in this game particularly, and I don't have one currently in my inventory. I'm not a fan of all this games perks, so whatever those are, they aren't a strong selling point for me. I like the cabs with generic perks, if they have any at all.

I like Crossout for it's art direction  and the creative freedom of the build mechanic, primarily, not so much for it's wonderful PVP feature. No cab in particular seems to help much with the issues PVP routinely has, so I don't know what difference it makes. Heavy cabs are slow. The other ones aren't. I like fast. However, a heavy cab and it's viable weapon compliments can help exploit the matchmaker and turn out "random" maps that suit my mood better to play, so I like them for changing that up, but it really doesn't matter much which one, as far as I can tell. Trucker works fine.

Any cab that is fun to Craft and Ride is what I go for. That's just not usually a heavy cabin for me. I don't find many of them very intriguing...and I like to go fast.

 

 

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48 minutes ago, Clebardman said:

Both co-drivers would potentially have some similarities with Jade/Perseus because energy weapons/drones, but I don't see it as a bad thing. It gives more variety and different options depending on what you want to play, and could have their own twist.

It can be a bad thing. If X is basically Y but better then going with Y is directly going to affect you.

49 minutes ago, Clebardman said:

Founders could buff energy weapon in a different way than Jade, like Hans does with reloading weapons compared to SD. The unique twist would be to buff weapons with a charging mechanism, and it could have a couple generic/cab/movement part bonuses focusing on tankyness.
I quickly threw together a list that is non-exhaustive/merely a rough sketch rather than actual suggestions:
-+5% reloading speed for energy weapons (to differentiate it from Jade)
-+5% charging speed for weapons with a charging mechanic. Wether it should includes Nests/Kaiju/Snowfalls/Masts is up to debate, but I see no reason not. More diversity.
-+1 drone launch. It's crap with Anni and actually decent with other drones/can be built around, so I think that one's pretty good.
-+500 mass limit or +5kmh for Omnibox. Not tonnage plz it's only used on hovers rn.
-+5% durability for Array wheels. Maybe Bigrams too? (Bigrams are strong rn but typically don't use the stuff that got bonuses so far so I don't see it as a big risk balance-wise).
-Throw a bonus to Verifier in, and a couple new goodies that feel Founders, like a cab power lvl 15 bonus.

I could see some bonuses to arrays (Something like 5% extra durability wouldn't be too bad.) and a small one for bigrams (Maybe 3% less power draw?). For the omnibox, I'd make the cabin boost be both tonnage and mass limit myself, the co-driver doesn't have as much as the other cabins offer so it needs some meat.

59 minutes ago, Clebardman said:

Syndicate would probably be a drone co-driver, with a pinch of grenade launchers for Yongwang, but so far is hard to give an identity to, especially since Targem trolled hard by tagging Jubokko, which is clearly a turret thrower, as a minelayer, and tagged Yongwang which is a minelayer as a grenade launcher xD I feel the faction has a strong mobility theme that gives good opportunities for something new in terms of co-drivers, but there's probably not enough to make a decent co-driver rn, granted. Things it should give IMO
-+5% drones reloading speed. Different from other co-drivers, while fitting the Yaoguai drone throwing gameplay better than raw damage.
-+3% damage/radius or something like that to grenade launchers would be nice to have. Gotta stay careful not to give too many bonuses to Retcher builds in the co-driver tho.
-+5 kmh to Yoko. Yokozuna really needs help since almost every 60 kmh cab gets +5 from Hans (and machinist should get +5 from SD)
-a Jubokko bonus, for sure. Maybe Kaiju/Yongwang too.
-an Omni bonus.
-some unique mobility bonus that makes sense for the Syndicate, like a slight mass reduction to weaps/modules/movement parts, and/or +3% power while drifting.

Clearly not enough to make a co-driver so far... which is sad because Yokozuna NEEDS the +5kmh or some other significant co-driver perk to counteract the influence of Hans. Lets wait until Syndicate gets another BP I guess (which would hopefully define the faction more clearly. RN it's "the drone guys who try to drift on Omni wheels with purple paint". Not very serious.)

The syndicate are the "very high tech" faction (Their melee weapon is high tech even.). The weapon spread isn't that bad considering that the Jubokko is basically a ranged version of the kapkan and the Yongwang is a grenade launcher even if it's unconventional.

I'd have to say that a speed buff to the Yokozuna only wouldn't be enough (Lets say all cabins get +5 km/h.). +5% explosive radius for grenade launchers shouldn't be much of a problem. Other bonuses are hard to decide through, there just aren't enough parts to get a good spread of bonuses.

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5 hours ago, _davekko_ said:

what is the percentage of the playerbase that uses the forum?

Irrelevant.  

In all the coms I've been in I've met very few players who say they hate heavy cabs.   I'd say the poll ratios are fairly accurate. 

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5 minutes ago, tenshiijin said:

Irrelevant.  

In all the coms I've been in I've met very few players who say they hate heavy cabs.   I'd say the poll ratios are fairly accurate. 

My wording was bad in the post but by “hate” i basically mean that when anyone asks for a “buff” or a “positive change” for a heavy cabin people just go on panic mode  like heavy vehicles gives them PTSD

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1 hour ago, _davekko_ said:

My wording was bad in the post but by “hate” i basically mean that when anyone asks for a “buff” or a “positive change” for a heavy cabin people just go on panic mode  like heavy vehicles gives them PTSD

Again, who is telling you that? A reasonable buff is not something that someone wanting a better game would oppose.

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