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[Mass testing] Planned balance changes. + and -


Woodyrojo
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ATTENTION! The topic is created to gather all the constructive feedback regarding the changes and new features in progress. Please, leave your feedback only after you've tested the changes on the special test server. All the posts that are not made in accordance with the example below will be deleted!

EXAMPLE

These are the features I like the most:

  • .... (in brief)
  • ....
  • ....

These are the features that I don't like:

  • ....., because...
  • ....., because...

Conclusion: (brief constructive conclusion that sums up your overall experience)

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Buffs:

  • ✔️ All buffs are a correct choice and welcome these weapons back to action.
  • ✔️ Mandrake's energy drain reduction to 7 pcs was waited for years.

Nerfs:

  • ✔️ Shotguns' range nerf to 60m feels too big and sharp. Try limiting it to 80m, or perhaps the optimal range of shotguns could be reduced by about 25% with the maximum firing range mostly unchanged, since it is going to be problematic to even get the invisible enemies out of the cloak from right in front of your nose.
  • ✔️ Parser's nerf can be barely felt, it still reaches too far and hits very accurately and hard. Parser's accuracy alone is a serious perk which allows it to easily take out the enemy's weapon, therefore, it feels like it needs a bigger nerf of its range at least. With the nerfed range of the rest of shotguns, it continues to stand out just as much. Also note that it causes more trouble at low and mid PS than at high.

Other changes:

  • ✔️  The change of Favorite cabin perk does not seem too balanced since it will just switch from favoring one type of weapon and produce other metas instead. For example, Favorite becomes completely unusable with Gravastars, but builds with Arbiters, Aurora and 2 radiators will gain +20 seconds to overheating threshold as they will have enough time to active the perk at least 4 times before their weapons overheat. Weapons like Retchers also gain +5 seconds to their overheating threshold (allowing them to deal 2000 points of additional damage) while shotguns gain only about +1.5 seconds, becoming barely usable with Favorite. Was a such shift in usability of Favorite intended? Also, it's possible to exploit its perk mechanic by combining weapons with long and short overheating threshold. For example, using Favorite solely with Gravastars is a really bad choice now, but if you additionally install weapons with long overheating threshold like Spark on the build, then the cabin's perk begins to largely increase the overheating threshold of Gravastars as well.

Brief suggestions:

  • The durability buff of Yaoguai drone makes it survive cannon shells (even a hit from Mammoth) making it feel like it's a tank, despite it's supposed to be a light flying drone. Perhaps you could enable it to move around or circle the area a bit instead, making its behavior more dynamic and realistic, what would also increase its survivability.
  • It's a bit strange to see that among all changes there are no plans on improving Reapers, considering that they are in a similar situation as Mandrake. There is no way to boost their performance (except switching straight to 16-energy build with other weapon like Aurora, which still isn't that good), so perhaps you could allow them to benefit from using radiators, which would increase their firing rate by 10% each. Their unrealistically low fire rate with unsatisfactory DPS desperately needs it.
Edited by The_Doomsday
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These are the features that I don't like:

 

All automatic shotguns

  • Now the sight of any automatic shotgun shows the current spread of the weapon.
  • Changed the format of the pellet spread from square to rectangular (now it corresponds to the scope).
  • Now turning the weapon doesn’t increase the spread.
  • The maximum firing range has been reduced from 100 to 60 m.

 

60 meters its not enough its should be 80/75 meters.

they should deal same dmg at 80/75 meters as before on the same distance but after 80/75 meters they shouldnt deal anything . currently on the test server my fused breakers on 60 meters deals 12/15 per shot

per shot dmg, it doesn't make sense for shotguns at 60 meters to hit so little damage per shot , 60 meters its a close range so it should deal more. if, according to developers, shotguns need a range nerf, give them more damage on close range, and maybe a small durability buff for hammerfall and a litlle durability buff for breaker

970509503_screenshot-211209-174624(54415

884980648_screenshot-211209-174625(54415

(screenshots from test server)

machine guns like punshier have so much more range, so 60 meters for shotguns aren t enough

1938699763_screenshot-211208-174441(3162

(screenshot from live server)

shotguns were like this for years , so i don t see any reason for to nerf, 40% range nerf, its a huge nerf

the only shotgun that needs a nerf is the parser

 

Cabin “Favourite”

The cabin’s perk still prevents the heating of mounted weapons and modules, but now the duration of the heating stop depends on the minimum heating time among all weapons mounted on the vehicle. The longer the minimum heating time, the longer the bonus lasts.

 

to me this looks like a favorite nerf from 2 sec to 1.6 sec (screenshot from test server)

491881472_screenshot-211208-183329(33237

 

 

 

These are the features i like the most:

 

All melee weapons

  • The damage zone is now displayed in the assembly mode.
  • You can no longer mount other parts in the area that deals damage. Crossing the area with other parts is also not allowed.

This is a good change , it was weird to see borers textures in each other 

 

All cabins

Reduced the time before the car flips without using a car jack from 30 to 20 sec.

This is a good change for newbies which are learning the game.

 

Revolver “Emily”

  • Projectile explosion radius increased by 7%.
  • Projectile speed increased by 33%.

last time i saw a Emily was one and a half year ago or even more , so its a nice change , maybe we will see more Emilys on lower power score brackets

 

Rocket launcher “Pyralid”

  • Perk bonus increased from 12% to 15%.
  • Perk duration increased from 5 sec. to 8 sec.

i was playing triple pyralid on harpy hover , it was quite good , i didn t see a reason to buff it , but its oke

 

Automatic cannon “Median”

Projectile speed increased by 17%.

good buff , Median its a funny weapon for low power score matches

 

Nailgun “Summator”

As the shot is charged, the weapon’s rotation speed increases.

good buff

 

Explosive “Boom”

Explosion radius reduced by 10%.

another good change , booms are annoying in low power score matches , they have really good damage and low power score (190)

so its a good change but i think booms should have a little more power score like 225 or something like this.

 

the rest of the changes are very good, the best change is mandrake , 7 energy its really good , finally, players will be able to add other modules, such as kapkan or reload module and verfier / doppler , or other modules like reload and engine

 

 

 

 

Edited by _MatiMax_
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Day 2:

These are the features I like the most:

  • The automatic shotgun range nerf is great. It addresses the main problem of the heating shotguns and the rest of the problems will be wedge related (Don't forget to finish the wedge nerf and implement crushing damage!).
  • The shotgun reticle changes are great.
  • The cabin flipping changes are also great.
  • The favorite perk change is great as well. The favorite is no longer a shotgun only enhancing cabin.
  • The changes to the Yaoguai are overall good, the perk change is only really going to be useful for full builds of Yaoguais but the better reload time is a great change.
  • The machinist perk change is great. It gives the cabin a much needed buff.

 

These are the features that I'm neutral on:

  • The median projectile speed nerf is mostly pointless, the median's projectile speed was already enough to be a capable sniping weapon. This is only going to make it slightly stronger when it's already capable.
  • The elephant's perk buff is also mostly pointless. Having an extra second isn't going to be of much important.
  • The thresher buffs don't really suit it's role as a brawling grenade launcher, they are more suited to a hit and run role.
  • The emily nerfs too don't really suit it's role as a hit and run weapon, they're more suited to a brawling weapon.
  • The quasar buff is ok I guess? The quasar's problems are far greater than a mere second will help with.
  • The stillwind perk buff is pointless. The stillwind is a not capable sniping weapon and the only use for a cloak with the stillwind is for a hit and run build running dual stillwinds. Any other use should be a build running a triple set up and a radiator/cooler for mid range firing.

These are the features that I don't like:

  • The mandrake changes are bad. The mandrake costs 8 energy for a reason. Taking it to 7 energy lets module combinations like energy costing engines+cloaks/radar detectors/reload boosters/.etc .etc. I wouldn't be surprised to see dual mandrake builds running kapkans if this hits the live server.
  • The parser changes are also bad. The parser needs a nerf but what it needs is a nerf to the charged mode's accuracy or the charged mode's damage. On their own neither would be a problem but together with the range of the parser they are a problem. Nerfing the reload by a tiny amount won't change anything of note and the range nerfs just attempt to shove the problem of both high damage and high accuracy under the rug. What should happen is either the high damage in the charged mode or the high accuracy in the charged mode is reduced, so the parser only has one of the two.
  • The summator and argument changes should be rethought as well. The nailguns should not be able to turn this fast simply because they are charged. This is an example of how quickly the nailguns will turn now:
  • .

Conclusion:  Overall a lot of good, a lot of "meh", and a few bad proposed changes that need to be cancelled for balance's sake.

Day 3: 

These are the features I like the most:

  • Same as day 2.

These are the features that I'm neutral on:

  • Same as day 2.

These are the features that I don't like:

  • Same as day 2.

Conclusion:

 

Day 4: 

These are the features I like the most:

  • Same as day 2.

These are the features that I'm neutral on:

  • Same as day 2.

These are the features that I don't like:

  • Same as day 2.

Conclusion:

Overall: 

These are the features I like the most:

  • Same as day 2.

These are the features that I'm neutral on:

  • Same as day 2.

These are the features that I don't like:

  • Same as day 2.

Conclusion: Plenty of good changes I'm excited for but the few bad ones are ones that I'm dreading and will only bring problems.

Edited by SIGMA920
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NOTE: I only tested with items I already have on the live servers. Also, the test server battles are filled with players with lower Power Score than what I was using and bots. 

These are the features I like the most:

  • Parser getting a change
  • Yaoguai change
  • Machinist change
  • Stillwind change
  • Melee weapon graphics

These are the features that I don't like:

  • Parser getting a triple debuff

Conclusion:

This update is generally good. 

Parser was powerful before this change. It needed balance adjustment but giving it a triple-hit seems like an over correction. The change to reload speed is extra effective because the first shot (which is unaffected) is the weakest, and every subsequent shot does most of the damage. However, wedging is mostly unaffected, because the extra time to shoot doesn't mean anything when the target can't react and the range it's shooting at is almost 0. I think weakening either its range OR its fire rate would have been sufficient for one balance patch, then see what happens after that. I'd prefer a fire rate change, then evaluate from there. 

Yaoguai durability buff is nice, as it grants users an extra second to escape from pursuers. However, this isn't as effective as it would be on other weapons. The point of the weapon is to throw drones at the target, preferably from behind cover. Also, the weapon is very large, so it's very easy to hit. The improved drone activation is great, because one of the drone's main weaknesses is the fact that it is stationary and elevated, making it easy to shoot down very quickly

Machinist perk change is nice to have. Having the perk decay over the course of the battle wasn't a good feature. However, the effect of this improvement isn't especially noticeable. Most direct-fire vehicle archetypes tend to go for one strategy: either shoot the guns off and move on, or heat up the cabin and burn its health to 0. This change does lessen the effect of getting hit by Mandrakes and Incinerators, which remove lots of armor efficiently but won't always destroy high-durability weapons.

Stillwind perk improvement seems to be aimed at aggressive triple-setup vehicles that use the perk to sow confusion on the front lines. However, a long-range double setup won't see much improvement. 

I only use one Harvester, so the improvement didn't affect me. However, it is a good quality-of-life feature. 

Edited by DominusPericulum
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These are the features I like the most:

  • Mandrake energy change - Especially after the introduction of reloading modules, this change was very much needed and is very much welcome.
  • Pretty much all the other changes, unless listed below

These are the features that I don't like:

  • Parser change - While this slightly addresses the range, this change will still not change a thing about it's hitscan alpha damage at range and general ease of use. While the range will be a little shorter, it's still a hitscan weapon that easily strips a lot of low HP weapons that it regularly meets at lower PS levels. Just give it the Kaiju treatment and make it shoot actual projectiles, something similar to Summator and Argument (and without a limited firing range, but with a decent damage fall-off). That would preserve and arguably even add to its uniqueness while lowering the ease of use. (And I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but it would add a lot to the uniqueness and a lot of extra cool factor to the weapon if the projectiles were also able to ricochet from walls and the ground)
  • Automatic Shotgun range nerf - This change will utterly destroy the chances to use shotguns on the move effectively and will make life much easier to the ever running away hovers. But it will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the plague of shotgun wedges and other shotgun builds that rely on establishing physical contact with the enemy and thus preventing the enemy from moving and/or shooting back, which is and always has been the primary reason why so many players constantly complain about shotguns! The shotguns on the test server also still have a very rapid damage fall-off, so they deal only about 75% of their damage at a mere distance of 30 metres, and only 50% at 50m, further reinforcing the use of wedges. So as is usual, whenever something is too good when used in a combination with an exploit (wedges in this case), you bring forth a nerf that ensures that only the said exploit will remain effective while players that do not use such an exploit will be at a disadvantage.

Conclusion: While most of the changes in this Test Server phase are very nice and shows us that the developer team recognizes some balance issues, the proposed changes to Parsers and Automatic Shotguns show one obvious flaw. And that is that the devs do not spend enough time playing and playtesting their own game - if they took some time off from the development itself and spent a week playing on public PvP battles, the source of the actual problem that makes Automatic Shotguns so effective and annoying to play against would become glaringly obvious to them. Same with the Parsers, really.

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These are the features I like the most:

  • Emily buff because its nice to see some interesting weapons more.
  • Nailgun changes because nailguns felt realy weird it close combat.

These are the features that I don't like:

  • Parser changers, because its still dishes out big chunks of damage with high accuracy, all weapos that have same dps on same range pretty fragile and have rotation speed decrease in charged mode with, thats right projectile flight speed, while parser have none of those disadvantages. So its realy easy to destroy cabs and weapons, especially on lower PS.
  • Shotguns "nerf" beacuse it does nothing against overall gameplay of shotguns, go in lock the target in place and just shoot, or wedge it. This changes even more encourages using wedge builds, making shotguns gameplay even more annoying for others. And making shotguns pretty much useless against fast hovercrafts. I'd rather changed spreads or time to overheat or fire rates.

Conclusion:  Feels like developers not even have appropriate testing division, only relying on publick opinion. Yes direction of actions pretty much correct but that is not enough. Play game yoursef dammit, or at least watch popular streamers of your own game.

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most of the features are fine by so far, so I go for the ones that I feel need more tweaking

  • mandrake energy reduction: the issues is that it now takes 14 energy instead of 16, which allows 16 energy setups to have a kapkan or 2 1 energy mods, or heavy builds to have 2 mandrakes and a energy spare for something. This is why we need more "decimals" though either the tenth place or multiplying all the energy in game by 10, then split out from there
  • parser nerf: just turn it into a projectile shotgun. It can still laser guns off in the test server by putting the crosshair over the gun. I mean, it is possible for you, after all, you did change kajiu from hitscan to projectile, and the game should be able to handle it, the nailguns are effectively projectile shotguns in charged shot mode.
  • thresher buff: is good, but what does GL-55 impulse supposed to do now?
Edited by howardxu23
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Already tested all the stuff here is my feedback:

This is what I like the most:

About shotguns:

 

1. the range nerf is good for the Breaker, Goblin and Gremlin, and they are now well placed in CQC range. The other shotguns do not need this range reduction. You should think about rise the durability of the Hammerfall.

 

2. In order to balance (or compensate) the breaker, goblin and gremlin, you could rise a bit the weapon base damage (7% should be good). 

 

 

 

About Melee weapons:

 

1. Great addition. You should keep this one as proposed.

 

About all cabins

 

1. Great addition. You should keep this one as proposed.

 

Special Rarity Weapons:

 

1. About Boom: insted of reducing the explosion radius, why not to rise the PS and weight of the weapon. This wepon is effective agains low armored vehícles.

 

Epic parts:

 

1. Great addition. You should keep this one as proposed.

 

Legendary Parts:

 

1. Stillwind: even with the buff, this weapon needs something, maybe an increase of fire rate. It is not a CW competitive weapon.

 

2.Mandrake: this change is good, but it needs more to become a competitive weapon, while it has good damage and range, the disadvantages are way more by far, even against epic parts (Incinerators for example, they are better than mandrakes for a fraction of the price).

 

3. Cabin Machinist: Redesing the front of the cabin, removing the small bumper. The propoused change is really good, you should keep it.

 

4. Shotgun "Parser": You should keep this one as proposed. Also increase the PS of this weapon.

 

Features that I did not like:

 

1. No Hurricane buff: I know that auto missiles are easy to use, this weapon needs some fix, maybe better reload time.

2. No rework for Leviathan Clan Wars: this CW mode is funny, but most of the time you only fight the same Levi.

3. Machinist Cabin design: this cabin could be the best for cannon users against suppression builds, you should consider to change the perk, making it no necessary to place your weapons in the cabin but anywhere in other chassis parts.

4. Mandrake buff: the buff you proposed is great, but this weapon needs more to be competitive. Maybe better precision.

 

I hope you can take some ideas of my feedback.

 

Thanks Crossout Team.

Edited by ppaavvss@psn
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I play Parsers at 11k PS against usually 12-14k PS builds. The weapon is really strong.

Hitscan + small hit area + good damage is a bad combo

Parser Change proposal: can you just increase the size of the hitting area, when charged, making it twice or even 3 times what it is and spread the damage on that bigger area?

It will still deal good damage on armor but wont strip small weapons in 1 shot.

Easy change to do that wont affect the unique nature of Parsers

 

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These are the features I like the most:

  • Cabin flip time.
  • Mandrake Energy
  • Melee fixes are cool
  • Stillwinds hurt but having to use a beholder only just to get a seal with them is ridiculous.
  • The quasar getting some love but it's projectile shape really destroyed this and the pulsars usefulness.

These are the features that I don't like:

  • Shotgun range changes make the gun very ineffective even at short ranges.  The gun can't even fire outside the garage.  This optimal is very very low.
  • The parser outclasses so many weapons on all accounts.
  • The favorite cabin has been targeted at least 4 times for changes getting ever so slightly worse.

Conclusion:  Some interesting changes but, some rather painful ones also.  

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Only thing I noticed of the most major note in balance is that the favourite will not only be good with shotguns but every other heat based weapon as others have noted.
With the ability scaling on the longest heat CD weapon.

One thing in general that needs some clearification, how does one get out of the testing?

I do not see a clear way to not get the launcher to be the test server version. (edit: worth noting that I'm playing with the steam version)

Edited by Euk_Diophant
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  • 3 weeks later...

Всем Час Добрый в очередной раз захожу на форуме с надеждой что разработчики либо объяснили или приведут в порядок тему с искрой и всполохом, играю на крафте 2 искры и всполох при встрече с миноукладчиками на перевес с искрой или всполохом, проблем не наблюдается, если проиграл в битве то понимаю сам дурак т.к. мой крафт это прямая контр мера против минёров ... но как встречаю крафты типа огнемёты, дробовики, милишки, при попадании на их искры "не убежать", а я даже не могу сбить им скорость. Как по мне не справедливо, когда у крафта с одним типом вооружения нет приемуществ перед комбинированными. Согласен что излучатели Тесла это саппорт но его оссобенность в снижении скорости у крафтов урона у излучателей не так и много, чтобы убить крафт в одиночку, если ты и встретился с дробовиками, скорпами, пулеметчиками, пушкарями, то ты в любом случае огребёщь по самым помидорам ... Надеемся на возвращение данному типу оружия перку или балансу при использовании .  Заранее спасибо за внимание!

Edited by ___BOPON___
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