I think I agree. The game isn’t much different than it was prior to the update, and all the problems it had before, it still has…plus a few?
To me it feels worse, since the damage from all weapons is now more consequential and devastating. This has led to a Fatman-Brick META to compensate for the only real change in game dynamics; increased build fragility.
People still have plenty of ammo, but now that ammo is buffed and heavy armor has become more critical, and due to being required to carry explosive ammo packs, light and medium builds are much more vulnerable.
lack of game modes for 1 thing. i would like more modes in the game that arent temporary.
also where is our heli raids?
how much do you want to bet theyll focus on melee next?
“oh well guns have all this ammo now and melee is unlimited, we think this is also unfair so lets add some bullshit system to this and give it ammo to!”
i can see this being a thing because it would be “unfair” so to speak.
everything counters missiles as is so why even run them? lol
more balance updates!
you get a balance update!
YOU get a balance update!
EVERYTHING and their grandmother gets a balance update!
not to mention so many perks of weapons and whatnot thatll need to be changed because of this to. yeesh i can see this being a problem for years to come…
Ya, I bet it takes a while before anything gets smoothed out again, and I’m glad I don’t have to figure it all out…not that I should expect that anybody ever will. However, this could be part of a larger plan. I feel like that’s grasping at straws to hope for, though.
and how much you wanna bet theyll abandon this plan just like they did with everything else?
no, seriously, thats a serious question. they added adventure mode, abandoned it. they added the new co-driver system, have we gotten any new ones or anything? nope. they add in temporary modes because they cant be bothered putting anything new into the game. they add these ungodly amount of battlepasses and mini battlepasses into the game because they dont want to expand the game any further with new and better modes or anything like that.
everything they add into this game they abandon to move onto something else. i have absolutely ZERO hope for this change.
oh it is.
they abandoned everything else so it wouldnt surprise me if they abandoned this to. in the “yearly plan” thing they released they never released anything on the calendar plan about the raids, it was all nonsense. now they are doing battlepasses every 3 months so 4 per year with mini battlepasses sprinkled in. this is honestly just a disaster and im really at my wits end here. i dont want to keep supporting a game where the devs dont want to improve their game and just keep making it worse and worse every year. theres been little to no effort in the past… how many years has it been? god i lost count. what im saying is this game has no future at all. so long as the devs keep neglecting the game and not adding modes and whatnot then i see no hope for this game lasting to long. as much as i like crossout i wont tolerate this crap for much longer. if they wont improve the game then im not going to support it. its like trying to get a dead horse to drink water, its pointless.
countless, COUNTLESS updates thatll need to be done, adding ammo, taking ammo away, rebalancing stuff in the game… and how much you wanna bet that theyll add a legendary ammo container and a special one in a battlepass. i feel they did this because they wanted another way to make money, not because they want to balance the game. watch, in a future battlepass i bet you theyll do exactly that.
I think the limited ammunition dynamic introduces some new potential developments for this game that weren’t possible before. Some people have mentioned Energy weapons might ought to require battery packs. I’ve mentioned tracer ammo, like War thunder. Ideas along this line might be fun? Depends on how they implemented it, I suppose.
Also, I see a marketing potential appear that could be exploited in a despicable way.
The best justification I have heard for this new ammo feature is that it may derail popular cheats. IDK. I’d be for that, if it did.
They did mention a plan to screw up speed somewhere down the line, so they do seem to have some kind of method behind their madness.
i think if they are going to do this that energy weapons need a different mechanic then regular bullet using weapons. i was thinking a special generator / battery that can be used to give the weapons charge, like itll charge the weapons to give them ammo or replenish their ammo count after a certain distance.
basically driving builds charge in the battery which transfers that charge to your energy based weapons to replenish their ammo or it builds up charges and based on the number of charges gives extra ammo or a back up reserve so long as the battery has charge left.
i even suggested a recycler which grabs metal from the environment and recycles it into bullets for your guns. maybe i should post that in a suggestion or something?
hey i wouldnt put it past them to do this. i bet thats why they did it in the first place. they had a simple solution to the problem but decided to completely throw it out and go to the extreme. its like i said to others, watch the next battlepass or the next one after that to have legendary and special ammo pack tiers. i think they might even do a relic ammo box.
sigh… the only thing that needs a speed adjustment is those damn mech legs. i was in a match earlier today getting my dailies done and i seen far more people then before running these stupidly armored mech builds. no joke, i think i was the only one running wheels… well tracks since i was using sleipnirs and my jotuns. still i am seeing a surge in them being used.
I dunno, you’re describing some pretty big changes, so it seems to me that a lot of things have changed, no?
Looking at the reactions here, I think people’s perspectives on the update are very much about which modes and which builds they personally play.
For the most popular modes and PS ranges, I think a lot has changed, especially regarding the most common powerful builds.
Cannons suddenly hitting like freight trains is a big change that really disrupts things.
DPS builds suddenly being more explosive and harder to aim is a very big change, given how much those builds have dominated for years now.
And these have ripple effects: like you said, heavy armour suddenly has more of a purpose. Melee hasn’t been changed, but now they have to deal with the consequences of the extra explosives their victims are carrying.
I think we need to wait and see how the dust settles before we make any definitive claims about what impact the changes have had. But I do know that the update has significantly changed the balance of the game, and that is the entire point of a balance update.
That’s only one particular difference, but ya it changes things.
Years? Seems more like just the last month or so. I can’t ever remember getting chronically pwnd by hitscan, until recently.
This isn’t a conventional “balance update.” It changes one single game mechanic dramatically, or you could say it introduces a completely new one.
If it was simply to nerf hitscan, it’s going through china to get across the road, and thus very impractical. Without there being more to it than nerfing Equalizers because they are a menace, then it’s nonsensical, IMO.
I’d suggest that perhaps the developers did actually have brain damage if that’s the case. It’s a much more complicated fix than simply reducing the damage output on hitscan weapons. It also has a way of creating that ripple effect you spoke of, breaking various preexisting game features, like the Manitou, for one example.
no its more of a marketing update. change this unlimited ammo to limited ammo and try to fork out some packs and battlepass nonsense to see what we can get away with. i bet they were running out of ideas and came up with that.
heavy armor is as it says on the tin, HEAVY. this wont do on lighter builds. lighter builds are supposed to be fast and not get hit to often but when is that ever the case? the max speed is 120 and i see builds even at that speed get shredded especially by heli builds.
complicated and bullshit really.
how many patches and “balance updates” are we going to need after this change? how many weapons abilities will need to be changed? how many cabin perks will need to be reworked and changed? how many updates to different ammo caps will we need on ammo?
this is just going to be a constant back and forth on what is good and what isnt, taking ammo away and adding some, adding more garbage modules and whatnot in the game for ammo types, balancing and testing weapon perks that get changed, testing cabin perks and changes to cabins, etc.
its an endless cycle and they just completely screwed everything up if they keep this in the game.
Oh, none…everything’s fine. What do you mean?
I think it makes a few things wonky for sure, but I don’t think it’s beyond their ability to address. But will they, and how? It’s a bit worrisome.
Frankly, I’m not that impacted by it negatively…yet. I am seeing the predictable resurgence of active melee META, and I really ain’t a fan of that.
I agree that it’s not a conventional balance update, but I think that’s a good thing. Simply fiddling with buffs and nerfs hasn’t been that effective, while this manages to shift everything with one change of the mechanics, as well as giving the devs another parameter to tweak for future balance adjustments. Similarly, the energy update gave them a lot more control over how to balance things.
They’re taking balance seriously this year, and while that isn’t a priority for me, it certainly is for much of the playerbase.
It’s not just about hitscan though, as it manages to target a wide variety of builds that were arguably too strong. To me, the ammo aspect is bigger than the removal of hitscan. I see the sense behind it.
I disagree that it’s a complicated change, and I think their intention was to tackle more than just hitscan.
The ripple effect is intentional, and pretty clever in my opinion.
After all, in CC it was non-hitscan Cyclones that were dominating so much, but simply making them run an ammo pack may have been enough of a change to knock them off the top of the pile in mid-range PS. We’ll find out if it worked this week when the new CC session starts.
I know that my no-ammo CC builds required a lot of adjustments to get even a rare ammo pack in there and still fit under 9kPS. People are going to have to make sacrifices to run the most popular guns, and that should open up a lot of room for other possibilities. More diversity is a good thing and worth pursuing.
I do agree that Manitou may need a rework, but I was saying that before the update too. I still like it, but I think they should make the adjustment I previously proposed of allowing us to trigger the manual reload when the chambers are empty, which would allow us to get the damage buff without wasting so much ammo.
Good, because that’s the point I was making too. There’s more to it than simply nerfing hitscan, otherwise it seems pretty stupid to do it this way, if that was all it was for.
If it were a marketing update, they would have released some new ammo pack or something. Maybe they will in the future, but at this moment it’s a pure balance update.
With all due respect, you pretty much only play PVE, and the dynamics are very different. I’ve always played mostly light fast cars, and I still am.
What is going to change (hopefully) is that spaced armour is going to become even less effective, which makes for better looking builds, as well as more build diversity.
I would expect there will continue to be balance adjustments with every update. It’s built onto the nature of this game, and could only be avoided if they never added any new items.
But now with ammo and the new energy system, they have a lot more ways to balance the game, beyond just nerfing or buffing the few parameters they’ve been fiddling with for years.
This is a good thing, because it allows for items to retain their character. For example, some guns are supposed to hit really hard, but if they end up being too strong and all the devs can do is to nerf DPS, they lose what made them interesting.
But now they can do things like keep the big damage, but increase the energy cost. Or decrease the amount of built in ammo. More balancing flexibility is a big thing, but more important in PVP and the competitive modes like CC, CW, and BfU.
ARE THEY? because it seems to me like they are just doing this to sell more items to us through battlepasses. you cannot tell me that they didnt do this on purpose. look at the excuse they gave us for changing this and tell me that excuse was valid when they had many different ways to balance things yet they decided to take the most nuclear route possible.
or tuning down the time it takes for them to go full blast wouldve been better… seriously i could counter these arguments your making.
except when that diversity changes the entire game and ruins a once good mechanic we once had. theres far to many changes thatll need to be made and the devs wont do all of them. they abandoned everything else in this game thats been put in, what makes you think they care enough to rebalance the old system?
money, battlepass material, mini battlepass material, packs. thats all its for.
im betting the next battlepass or the one after it will be them introducing more ammo packs and whatnot. we will see but i have a feeling thats what it is.
energy system, yes. the ammo? absolutely not.
wtf are you talking about? cannons hit hard because they use ammo and have a limited amount. mgs had hitscan and were op. the simple solution was to take away hitscan and change how the guns deal damage.
i dont think many people care much about CC, CW and bfu. but whatever floats their boat i guess…
I don’t think this has anything to do with selling anything, since there’s absolutely nothing for sale that relates to the ammo change. And even if they did add a legendary ammo box in the future, the current ones are more than enough for the majority of us.
I will take all this back if they do try to monetize ammo in the future, but it’s very premature to say this is about selling anything.
I’m pretty sure they did something like that in the last balance patch, but it didn’t seem to change much in CC.
And if you managed to nerf Cyclones more, people will just swap to miniguns.
You are describing the original logic of why cannons took ammo and MGs didn’t, but the reality hasn’t matched that in PVP modes for a long time.
Cannons didn’t need the extra disadvantage of ammo to keep them in balance, and DPS weapons overall needed to be made more vulnerable.
This is one change that impacts several arguably OP builds and strategies at once, which is simpler than tackling each weapon independently.
How does ammo for MGs ruin your PVE experience? I’m obviously coming from a PVP perspective, so maybe I’m missing why this is such a problem for you. I’d like to understand better how it’s impacting you.
I’ve come to realize that there are a lot of players who mostly only care about a couple modes. Many only do PVP, but there are also a lot who prefer PVE. And there are some very committed serious players who only do CW/CC/BfU. And then there’s the Bedlam people and those who love all the special event brawls.
I’m at heart a PVP person, but I like to dabble in the other modes, and have come to really enjoy some sweaty CC/BfU sessions each week. The PS limit really helps to counter the P2W feeling I got from CW.
I’m not someone who cares about perfect balance, but the game is better when you see a wide variety of builds. Keeps things fresh, and helps counter the repetitive aspects.
Balancing PVP is different from balancing the competitive modes. And balance in PVE is a totally different situation, but I would argue less of an issue, as in theory all the other players are allies and you’re not supposed to be seeing them as competition. Not to mention that many of the best PVE strategies just don’t work against real players, so it’s completely different for balancing.
Honestly the stuff I’d like to see them fix next is dealing with ammo too but in a different means.
A lot of weapons clip and cut off a full shot and some weapons have ammo counts that do not make much sense. I’ve mentioned some of this before:
Kaiju could count all projectiles fired. Same with a number of the standard rockets. Assembler has an issue of low ammo count when looking at it’s uncharged shots. Similarly this also goes for nest where you might not fire all 6 rockets. Some of the energy weapons might also clip like this but it’s harder to tell as they fire faster. Revolvers only count for a entire cylinder load rather than each individual shell. Re-doing the ammo count for the revolvers would probably fix the current manitou issues as well.
Then there is the drones with the redundant ammo system. That micro factory could be re-used as an ammo collector instead. It would be nice to have a secondary solution to using an ammo crate. Harvesting ammo would just be a different way of dealing with the same issue of limited ammo.
I see some different opinions popping up in here over electric weapons and ammo, to me ammo is just ammo they could be batteries too but for all intensive purposes could we just leave it as ammo? In a descriptive sense maybe it could just be renamed on the weapon itself with no change in the mechanics.
