Why it's not easy to Balance this game

Balancing the matchmaker would be an interesting option. I have this idea for players to be able to choose a category their vehicle belongs to based on the way it’s built and the intended playstyle. My idea was for there to optionally be icons representing these categories for quick and easy reference on the HUD. Imagine, if in addition to seeing teammates’ nicks, we’d see icons telling us wat they’re driving, to help us make better tactical decisions, e.g. if someone is a heavy, or fast, high alpha, support, etc. Some examples of such categories:

  • skirmisher (assuming mgs or similar)
  • brawler (assuming shotguns or similar)
  • tank (assuming cannons or other high alpha damage weapons)
  • spidertank (as above, but on legs)
  • melee (a buzzsaw icon for any melee function, also passive melee)
  • lancer (if a separate category from melee)
  • flamer
  • artillery (an icon showing a steep firing arc - incinerators, howitzers or similar)
  • sneaker (a general icon for any sneaky playstyle)
  • barrier car (or just a turtle icon, to show a general defensive function)
  • miscellanneous support, maybe mines, kapkans
  • droner
  • a Firewhip type car - because it’s so unique. :laughing:

But, ultimately, it would be up to the player to determine what playstyle they’re after, and not about the weapons used.

Such a division could help put teams together so there ideally is someone to do the tanking, someone for skirmishing or brawling, a melee, a droner to get carried… :joy: Except in such a case teams could seem weird, at least for those that are used to the unpredictability. It could help new players find a niche for themselves, and seeing as the developers have been changing Crossout to better accommodate new players, who have NOTHING - no stuff, no experience, no motivation, maybe it would be something they’d want to implement. Anything to keep new players happy for what seems like a short expected duration before quitting for good. They keep lowering their expectations of new players, and that seems to be making the game more casual.

I remember being overrun at Sector EX (note the subliminal programming) by a team of mostly melees. But maybe a skilled enough team would be able to handle that? Which, in turn, would require wantng to play well. Too many lazy losers that aren’t trying enough and don’t seem to care about improvement. Which would be another reason to have separate leagues for anyone, for art vehicles, for competitive players, and an elite league tag to help with automatic selection of battles to stream on twitch, promote the game, attract more players, more money, and it could’ve been done years ago, if only the developers had cared enough to do something for the game, to be creative, brainstorm all possible options. It was their responsibility to have come up with the Twitch idea, not mine. I shouldn’t have to think about how to better promote the game because I see the developers being too lazy to care.

It could be balanced relatively easily, with developers devoted enough. E.g., the Cockpit could have been balanced by setting the bonus damage limit at +100% or +90%, and reducing the bonus by 1 point for each energy point spent on weapons. That way, if a leviathan had 50 energy points in weapons, the damage bonus would be +50% or +40%, respectively. And regular PvP vehicles would retain a higher bonus. There could be made special conditions taking into account the Destructor or the Wang, e.g. having the bonus decrease throughout a volley dealing damage to a single target - but that could be too limiting for the Hurricane. But at least the general rule with reducing the bonus depending on the energy spent on weapons would be a big improvement. A simple, elegant solution. If they’d only cared to do balancing creatively.

At this point, I’d expect new balancing measures being aimed at new players, to make the gameplay easier, less demanding, so as not to scare them off too soon, so they’d spend more money. The writing is on the bathroom stall wall, and it’s not crayon. Which reminds me of the glory points and the new co-driver system. “Those players who are close to reaching max level and have unlocked one or more co-drivers may have too much advantage over those who are at earlier stages of the game and cannot unlock a co-driver yet.” This is a quote from today’s preliminary announcement of the new system with a list of some of the new co-drivers. It quote conveys a very obvious message: the developers don’t expect new players to stay long, so they want to make their short stay more bearable. So that they’d be more inclined to buy a pack, feeling more welcome, hopeful, until the disappointments hits hard and they quit for good. Making more room on the servers for new arrivals. A high player turnover rate isn’t bad for a game if money is flowing in. Gameplay quality be damned! This particular writing has been on the wall so long it’s fossilized over the years.

For clarity, let me emphasize:

  • higher and higher turnover rates, both expected and preferable,
  • focus on providing a sense of achievement early on,
  • which makes new players more likely to spend money - because they feel like they’re already achieving something, in their very first days of playing,
  • still not caring about losing players, and if they only play for a few months instead of years on end, that’s even better, because there’s extra room for new arrivals,
  • gameplay quality was never a priority, so if seasoned players quit because the game is broken (by favoring new players and their lack of experience or involvement), even more free space on the servers.

Bonus remark:
Western players still pay double the prices for Russian players and still no money is being invested in launching servers in North America, but they’re free to quit anytime, whatever. Just pay us and go, hurry up!

Omega you really don’t u derstand how impossible it is to balance these types of games. Im all about high PvP with high creativity. I’ve never seen a game with this combo be fully balanced. There is simply no one alive capable of doing it. You want balance in the pvp? You’ll have to restrict the creative freedom. It’s that simple.

These kinds of games will be patched and have balance changes endlessly until the game is retired. It is inevitable.


yeah foreseeing how the cockpit was going to be a problem on leviathans was impossible. to actually balance it is even harder. youd have to pick a random of the hundreds of ways to limit the bonus on leviathans.

i bet they totally didnt think about how sukkers are going to buy the pack three times either.

thanks for explaining, tenshin

It is possble made better balance pretty easily! It is enough if devs take down meta buildings synergy for example. Second one is how devs can changes abilies and such too,they can made even new ones if have to.

So there is alot things which can be better way, if devs actually want to change something.


My earlier comment still stands - with so much variety on movement parts, modules, weapons and cabins i think it would be extremely hard to have every build balanced in random PVP. And then it would mean if you could make awesome builds and took the time to work on how the game is to get an advantage shouldn’t you get an advantage? I think when cross-play comes in, their will be a bigger player base so the PS gaps should be smaller. If you want the building ability then things will not balance with random groups.

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can you people make a coherent argument? the dirtboy says you cant balance teams with a random mm which is an entirely moot point to make.

others wrongly throw this in the same boat with item balance which obviously is what sane people refer to when talking about balance in crossout.

then when it comes to item balance some people argue you cant balance those at all if you let people assemble a vehicle freely with any assortment of those items. this is simply untrue and would imply the devs release new items without any consideration of item balance.

so obviously the devs have and are making balance considerations when releasing new items, their stats arent random. its just, theyre way off sometimes and in some cases it takes a year to fix one of those or it doesnt happen at all. in some cases the item presumably is a money maker for the company.

crossout has never been great at balancing items and it seems to be part of the business model.

what does that have to do with anything?

tenshin come quickly, flag this post, its off topic.

I think your taking what people are saying a bit out of context there kiddo.

When creativity causes something to be OP, it’s no longer creativity, it’s just a balancing issue which makes a game unfun to play. It then has to be made non-OP. It’s very simple. I followed up with an example of how that works, i.e., an elegant solution how to balance the Cockpit, which in its simplest version is imperfect, but it’s easy to implement overnight, for a huge improvement in balance AND a lot of building & tactical creativity restored. (A few additional rules, e.g. regarding the Destructor or the Wang would make it complete.)

Done. The Cockpit fixed. The info just needs to get to the developers. But you ignored that. Why? Did it seem to you that you could make me look stupid that way, which in turn would make you look smart? Is your situation so bad that that’s what you have to resort to? Then another console troll to come to your aid.

The Thief games taught me that it’s always possible to find a solution to a problem. And you may not realize that, but there are people who are very adept at analyzing and working with intricate systems. They’d just go through the web of balancing issues and unravel all the chaos, leaving the game nice and orderly, fun to play. That’s how it works. Perhaps you either impose limits on your CREATIVITY - in terms of looking for solutions, or there’s a deeper problem. If you prefer to spit faeces at people, I guess go for it, whatever calms you down after you get triggered because you didn’t or couldn’t understand something and that had to cause the triggerring reaction. That doesn’t help the image of console players, but you don’t care. I keep telling myself: “I’d want to be stupid.” Not care about complex stuff, just happily breeze through my life. Ignorance must be bliss. Until it triggeres anger in someone. :laughing:

There’ve been whiners since I started playing in 2017. But since last year, I’ve seen them being replaced by ‘squeakers’ - an evolutionary step, in a way. One time, after I posted a neutral remark about heavy grind being intended to make players spend money on Crossout, a group of squeakers used that as a pretext to attack me by saying I had no idea how hard the grind was and that I should start a new account to see it for myself - ignoring the fact that I must’ve gone through even more grind (which was obvious from the counter under my nick displaying the battles completed). This is the same kind of behavior: “I don’t see ways of fixing a problem, so it can’t be solved and anyone that claims otherwise is stupid.” In both situations, I wasn’t attacking anyone, but that’s what these entitled cowards do. They’re scared of anything that’s associated with some moderate amount of effort, they panic and go as far as to get offended and start offending people who weren’t even attacking them in the first place. That’s their meta-game. My meta-game is trying to come up with solutions to balancing issues. But what do I know, I’m different.

This is some bizarre case of cyberbullying. Denying me my right to believe games can be balanced, because of one’s own lack of imagination. But it’s not even proper bullying, just hiding behind the Internet and trying to impose one’s warped narrative. The squeaker community is so pathetic. Such snowflakes can be triggered by anything that doesn’t support their defeatist mindset. They want for everyone to be weak - only then would they be able to feel safe. And if someone doesn’t mind taking on a challenge, they’re wrong, stupid. And have to be attacked. It’s somewhat interesting how fast the thought process is in such individuals, how they can get instantly agitated by something they don’t fully understand. There’s no depth to it, that’s why it’s so fast. Something so primitive isn’t very captivating, but it’s a curiosity, a quirk of nature.

I managed to use the Clarinet at PS of 10K and 11K before the Cockpit was released, and after that, at 12K, with consistent success. The hardest weapon to use effectively. I launched a YT channel showcasing some primo elite Clarinet gameplay. Just because I had something cool to show and I wanted to share it. None of that would’ve been possible if I’d gone “TOW is bad, buff or bust,” like what some others said in this thread:

Perhaps I was able to come up with the Cockpit fix because of having used it extensively (3000+ battles with it recorded on my HDD). But arriving at this particular solution shouldn’t be very hard. And being able to ignore it to make attacking me easier is some advanced trolling. As I understand, the recipe for validation here is the following:

  1. Find a comment that you can use to create drama by ignoring the actual message. It only needs to have a few key words.
  2. Spit a bunch of poo at the author.
  3. Pretend something stuck and is a valid argument.
  4. Feel good about yourself because you’ve proved that person isn’t smarter than you. LOL, what a stupid noob. Victory!

I hope the console community isn’t all like this. I once saw a screenshot of the console chat, it was mostly unpleasant spam.

Now that this silly stuff is dealt with, I have an important video to work on.

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Sure you can fix the cockpit. You can balance one part in this game, but every time you balance one thing it causes a domino affect and unbalance something else. Then they balance something else to try and remedy what was thrown off balance and it unbalance something else. It’s an endless cycle. You act like it’s easy. But I don’t think you actually have any experience in game development and balancing. You just being hopeful. Sure hope is nice. But I’m being real. There’s no point in people always complaining about something that will never change.

Just let Devs do their thing. They do a pretty damn good job Imo. They’re not perfect. But nobody is.

A game that gives the players this much freedom to build is gonna be very hard to balance. Could the balance be better? Yes, however… Targem seems to be a small company. I think the game’s business model is also a contributing factor to the game’s balance (or lack thereof.)

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Dear Madam/Sir, :wink:
I apologize for not paying more attention. Thank you for the reminder. After posting the original comment, I read the subsequent ones by muppet/you and realizing my mistake, decided to delete the whole thing, but somehow that didn’t work, maybe because a reply prevented it. It has now been edited accordingly. I wish you lots of success in Crossout. :sun_with_face:

While at some point the balance issues may be lesser, true balance or anything close to it is impossible with this much creative freedom. Whatever they balance around, people will find ways around and above because of very little restrictions in building.
As long as they have learned the lesson and don’t keep making parts that play at different physics rules, or put areas where some can go but other’s can’t, it’s the best we can hope for.


Items can not be balanced because of play styles, and the human element of this game.

In games with per-built cars they can balance the speed, the armor, the damage and so on as a whole. So if they had a heavy cannon build in the game it might be your classic “slow with a ton of armor, high damage, long range tank” you see in many games instead of a “super fast, light weight, hover, with no armor.” (Just an example, not hating on hover cannon builds)

To me that is the beauty of this game though. If you think about it, it’s kind of like how the wasteland would be. You find some random trash out in the world and try to find the best way to kill your enemy with it.

One of the other big factors is the evaluation in building cars has been based on the physics of the Crossout world and not the real world. Which I’m sure produces many unexpected results that the dev team did not see coming.

The players building skills have been able to advance way faster in the last 7 years of the game then they could have in the same 7 years if all of this was real life. An engineer (in the game world) might be able to design what? Maybe 10/15 cars in a lifetime? Maybe less because they die a lot on the battlefield? Lol.

But players can design unlimited digital cars in a fraction of the time it would take a real Person to build one. And because of that the evolution of design “in game” has evolved hundreds if not thousands of years in game time.

When new things are introduced I do not think that the dev team can conceive all the ideas that thousands of people can come up with. (I’m Already thinking about the Co-driver system.)


Not everything I say has finite perimeters. Some things won’t cause a snowball affect, other things will cause unexpected snowball affects. As far as cockpit is concerned it will just be replaced by a different meta once its nerfed enough and a new meta will arise in Levi wars where people like you will cry real hard about it needing a nerf. Change one thing and another op meta will shuffle to the top. For Levi wars it would need to balance parts separate from regular cw and PvP. Cockpit is a perfect example of that.

I think that cockpit really made it easier for more people to have a reasonably competitive build. If you did not have this, it would be biggest most expensive inventory wining.

Now, cockpit, 2 Yongwangs, blue boosters and white modules ready to go. Or 2 Retchers, fidgets, Destructors and couple whirls not too bad either. These would not be top tier but with teamwork could win games at lower leagues.

Balancing levis really i do not see possible unless you took the building element out and had to run pre-made builds which would not be fun.

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I never changed my mind about anything in this thread. You just made assumptions.

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