Thanks for have some sensibility regardless if you agree or not. As well as trying to do a good summery of topic points.
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I donāt think I completely understood all the parts of your logic, but agree with the bigger picture.
To me, Crossoutās biggest problem is that itās free to play, which locks it into a business model that is inherently annoying for players. Within that model, I think theyāve done OK, but itās still a bad model that will prevent the game from ever living up to its full potential.
My hope for the game is that Rust and Dust was a test run for a buy-it-once spin-off version. I donāt think thereās any realistic way of getting the main Crossout game out of the F2P swamp, but I would gladly play $50 for a version that worked like R&D and that never got new content (ideally use the entire structural and movement part library of Crossout though). I think you could even put the legendary and relic items into a game like that, provided that they cost a ton of in-game coin and that had a weekly season reset so that veterans couldnāt build up an advantage over time.
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Iād be interested in a paid-for standalone version, that offers multiplayer support (one personās machine would act as a server) like alot of 90ās games did. They could even offer periodic updates/expansions that you could download (for some set fee). Adding a mission editor would be great, so you can keep things fresh for you and your fellow players.
Then 20 years from now, you could still play, even if the online version is long since defunct.
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I donāt think getting too technical is required for a fairly simple failing game and
I donāt think itās very clever to talk real life issues with marketing when weāre talking about a game with a very simple marketing systemā¦
Lecturing someone about real life technicalities doesnāt make you right about a simple gameā¦
I love how you claim what will happen to the market yet my very idea is applied to most mmoās with a market and they work just fineā¦
You make it sound like applying a coin based reward system would would be the final nail in the games coffinā¦
I Promise you the Targem Developers are already working on thatā¦
Youāre putting a lot of words in my mouth, that donāt represent what Iām actually saying.
Any game with a p2p market is going to be impacted by the same issues. Itās not that you canāt add new coin into the system, but that it has to be done carefully to avoid devaluing coin so much that it creates other problems. All games are going to use various techniques to try to keep their economy stable, whether you are aware of it or not. Some techniques are going to be more subtle, but theyāre still there.
Anyway, youāve got things backwards. Coin isnāt what you want, itās the items themselves that you want. The more ways you have to acquire items, the lower their prices will become, and then you could buy more stuff with the coin you currently have.
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there is only 2 ways to get these itemsā¦ well 3.
1: battlepasses until they expire, nobody like this because once the battlepass ends the only way these items can be acquired again is via mini battlepasses or events.
2: mini battlepasses. again, nobody wants to keep forking out money into stuff like this, it devalues items and increases their prices to ridiculous degrees. take a look at the thor, finwhale, nox, heck the stillwind was a perfect example of this. these items were limited and ran up from 10k - 25k coins! this is an absurd amount of coins and makes coins practically worthless. if you think this adds any type of value to the game then you are just out of your mind. this only exists so that the rich snobs can buy out the stock, hoard it and then sell it back to people at an absurdly high cost. nobody is going to want these which is why permanent blueprints are a key essential for this game and the market place.
and dont tell me itll devalue anything because these limited legendaries / epics run anywhere from 6k coins to anywhere in the 10 - 15k range. when a new BP comes out people buy the pass day 1 and max out the pass to get everything to flood the market with inflated priced items. this doesnt add value to coins let alone a game.
3: buying coins. the price of coins isā¦ ridiculously high. so please dont tell us anything is ādevaluing coinsā because the things that are devaluing coins are the absurd shop prices, the market community, players, limited items and the devs themselves.
how can we buy these items if the coins are the hardest thing to acquire in the game? resources are limited per week, raids are limited by fuel, fuel is limited by market cost and often times even the market cost will have you buying at a loss. even if you bought fuel in the market and used it in raids you get very little in terms of any kind of profit. copper is barely profitable and you also have to take into consideration the stupid tax they have as well. barely anything in this game is profitable anymore. uranium can be profitable, but who out of any new player can afford to build a stable build for clan wars or battle for uranium?
bottom line here poony is coins mean absolutely nothing. they hold no value, its difficult enough getting them. not alot of people want to sell off every resource they get to hoard coins.
you getā¦ what? 6500 scrap or something like that per week as a cap?
i know theres a limit on wires and batteries to.
raids are limited by fuel, fuel is limited by the market or you can go and get the fuel yourself but even this is convoluted. you HAVE to survive the match AND WIN AND not have your fuel tank exploded in order to get fuel. this is just absurd, if we have the tank on our car just let us get fuel if we win even if we die.
im just saying i dont believe that coins in the game have any value. im sure alot of other people will agree but idk i could be wrong.
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The issue is a little more complex, itās not that the more ways that you can acquire items that decreases the price itās that a lot of the items have no way to be removed from the game outside of salvage which doesnāt pay out that well or upgrades that remove some. So the supply of the item builds up slowly and when it out grows the demand for the item the price slowly declines. This is part of the reason you can end up waiting months to sell a BP item at a value that covers itās crafting costs.
An easy example for this is sell on the market days and you can watch the price of common wheels drop really fast.
So as I had mentioned before I think everything in the game should be craft-able by a free player. However production counts might have to be limited a bit because of how the market would respond to a sudden spike in production rates. I was thinking that using the earnable badges might be capable of doing this function as they could be rotated out in cycles. This would give them the opportunity to use badge earning more in the game too.
Being able to produce and sell limited items on the market is pretty much a mission for gold just with some extra steps involve that attempts to get a player to play various modes. We have to insure the value of gold though or it degrades in value and that will make it harder for starting players as well.
Some of us that do any crafting realize sometimes an item isnāt worth producing simply because the components within itās recipes are better used elsewhere. So we could get away with a mission like produce or purchase and sell an item back to the game rather than another player. This would be an example of a cash mission that I think would help maintain market health. The complaint that I hear often that goes with this that itās not worth crafting stuff.
To maintain the value of gold though means we need functions that remove gold off the market too. If there is too much gold entering the market players will start asking more for the basic stuff they sell. Itās not doomsday type of stuff but its just the way currency tends to work. A big portion to fix is the incomplete crafting system too. Unless they fix that it will continually irritate the systems they already have in place.
That helps retain the value of the resource though.
Thatās part of the challenge, if that wasnāt in place people would just eject their fuel tank at the start of the match just to collect. Fuel values would tank and youād lose a way for new players to exchange coin around. I wouldnāt mind if they gave like 1 fuel per match as a standard reward though without a fuel barrel. Fuel though via raids has a way out of the system which helps stabilize itās price.
Unless they want to do a really big economic rip out this stuff has to be thought about carefully. Iād really hate to further injure the game just because someone is frustrated over how much coin they can mill.
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i see what you did there 
and thats a bad thing? fuel is 22 coins per 100 fuel and raids are barely profitable as is.
lets say i spend 44 coins to fill my tank, the average amount id get from a raid is roughly 30 plastic but lets be generous and say we get 34 on the high end.
200 fuel gets me 150 plastic which is a total value ofā¦ the prices fluctuate wildly here on ps5 so lets say 60 coins per 100. since you cant sell 50 plastic they stay in your inventory.
so 60 - 44 = 16 but lets not forget the tax to. so that comes out to 10 coins.
you spent 44 coins to get 200 fuel and sold the plastic for roughly a 10 coin profit.
but lets be generous and say its 80 coins you sell it for.
80 - tax - 44 = 28 coins if your lucky.
im sorry but this is just laughably bad.
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Thatās the kind of a portion of a bit Iām mentioning, that Iām saying has to be watched for and fixed. The exchange rate between resources needs to be monitored or when itās not profitable players start doubting the usefulness of the resourceā¦ While you might be buying fuel some other player is selling it so are you saying your profit making is more important than another players? While you might say raids are barely profitable now on your buying fuel with higher fuel prices because the supply side goes down and then the raids are even less profitable and everything using those resources goes up in price. Which then makes crafting less profitable for those higher up that do craft for profits.
Itās probably not the best system for a video game but itās what we have right now.
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I feel like youāre not really getting what Iām trying to say.
Hoarding any resource, whether itās scrap, copper, or coins doesnāt make a lot of sense, unless you are waiting for prices to shift.
In the past, I did a lot of crafting, and I preferred to win those resources through battles, rather than buying on the market. But as my inventory filled up, I didnāt always have something that I was grinding ingredients for, so I started just playing whatever mode I wanted to, and selling all the resources I won. When I got enough coins to buy something I wanted, Iād buy it.
Currently Iām saving my coins to get a Queen, and I should be there within the next couple weeks.
Neither of these approaches is necessarily better than the other. At the end of the day, we care about the items, not the scrap or coins we used to get it.
I am not trying to say the devs do a great job at managing the market. Obviously there are lots of items that cost way too much, because they are scarce due to being either pack-only or because they were in a BP and arenāt easily crafted. But you can also see how those prices can change rapidly when the supply of that item is increased, whether itās accomplished by a pack sale, adding the item to a mini-BP, or some other method.
I hate capitalism and think itās dumb, but the rules of supply and demand work the same here as they do in the real world. This means if you increase the amount of coins in the game, itās going to reduce the amount of items you can buy with that coin, just like when a country adds a bunch of money into their economy. Just printing more money doesnāt make things more affordable, unless the government (or devs) can also control prices.
I canāt remember the last time I crafted anything. I just buy everything I want with coins, and Iāve also never bought coins with real money.
All my coins come from selling resources, and itās really not hard to accumulate a decent supply that way. I know Iām more patient than many on the forum, but I always have a backlog of new items that I havenāt even had the chance to use in a build. And thatās purely from selling resources and buying the cheap versions of the normal
BPs. Iāve never bought a pack, never bought coins, never bought a mini-pass. I think I once bought a couple BP levels, because I was very close to being able to get an extra item but didnāt have enough time to grind the levels before the BP ended.
I craft one item every other day. Sometimes it is 5 repair kits that I sell one of every other day. Sometimes the badge exchange for 100 plastic or 100 electronics, but those are not always available.
So, I pick a purple item of the market that sells for about 400.00 coin and begin crafting it one ingredient every other day starting with white, then blue, then teal until finally I craft the purple item. If I need more repair kits, that delays the purple item. If 100 plastic or 100 electronics becomes available for exchange, that delays the purple item.
yes poony, because we dont have an ungodly amount of players in the game to help the market be stable. we have, instead, a bunch of trolls who love hoarding limited items to later sell for a much higher inflated cost.
also i dont see your point of why its a bad thing that an item goes down in price when more are introduced. why do we need items, specifically legendaries, costing almost as much as a singular relic?
the lowest relic we can get is the odin at around 20 - 25k coins and the highest i ever seen a BP item go is 30k. as soon as supply was given the price dropped down to around 7k. while yes this is a HUGE drop in price, it also goes to show how slimy people on the market place can be.
poonyā¦ hate to break it to you butā¦ this game doesnt have a whole lot of players in it to properly distribute resources. weapons, wheels, etc are all dependent on the community and players inside the game. if a game has a low player count then yes the games going to eventually get flooded with excess items and whatnot. if the devs cared or even bothered to care about their game we would have alot more content, alot more players and alot more to do in the game for everyone. this would help in the long run but it seems the only thing that matters is pumping out BP after BP after BP and MBP after MBP after MBPā¦ its an endless cycle thats going to kill the game.
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Thatās because I donāt believe that.
What Iām saying is that it would be better to introduce more supply of overpriced items in order to bring down their cost, instead of flooding the market with coins, which wonāt actually make it easier to acquire those items, since all that would happen with more coins in the system would be for their value to go down, which then raises the price of those items even more.
Does that make it easier to grasp what Iām saying?
I am saying that it would be better for the devs to more actively manage the market by making sure the supply of overpriced items increases, rather than simply introducing more ways for players to obtain coins.