Oh, I’ve seen so many people here argue that they should faceroll every match because they burnt 2000$ on their fused relics, I was totally sure that was what you were going for 
It’s all good I’ll learn to read one day
They were, yes. Tons of weapons are uncraftable and sell for less than craftable stuff because they’re either garbage or hard to use. Stillwind was nearly 10k because it was broken af and silly easy to play.
Also remember that cannons were at their worst back then, so Stillwind was pretty much the only viable range option alongside scorps lol.
My point is that the reason the price surged so much was that there weren’t many available to sell. But then when more were unleashed on to the market, the price crashed again.
There wasn’t any big nerf that drove the price down, it was just availability.
Yes, some items are expensive because they are OP. But that doesn’t mean that every expensive item is OP. Does that distinction make sense?
I’m sorry but no. Some items are hard to come by but they suck ass, they cost nothing. Just compare Gerrida/premium Icarus to some other exclusive movement part. All the premium, uncraftable tracks are sitting below the average price of movement parts. Is it because they’re extremely common, or because they’re hot garbage? Sabbath is expensive af (a staple of Flash Firebug progamerz), I can buy 4 Atoms (no use whatsoever) for the price of 1.
Stillwind suffered a lot with the way armor pen works now. And who would pay 8k for it now that you can just craft a Cyclone and melt faces with that?
Availability plays a much lesser role in terms of market prices than being the OP FOTM item.
Alright, next time I’m online I’ll take some screenshots of expensive items, and you can explain how they are all OP.
Stop being so black and white, you know what he’s saying stop being a little bitch about it
Availability is a reason, but usefulness in the current meta is the main factor. You can look everywhere on the market, you’ll see it. Most expensive cabs are Cat and Blight, but the cheapest ones are almost exclusively harder-to-craft or premium cabs that suck. The three outliers as far as legendary items go are Thor, Athena and Omamori. Uncraftable yes, but also mandatory in the current meta. Cheapest is Vulture, at 1k coins. Unavailable, but also garbage.
Interestingly, premium tracks actually don’t sell that bad on second look. it’s just that Gerridas and premium Icarus sell for so much more, I assumed they were below average shrugs
What’s also striking when you look at the market like that, is that 50%+ of the game is now premium, uncraftable, or only craftable by a % of the game’s population.
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Lol, I thought I was trying to convince him that it’s not a black or white issue.
Let’s recap: he says you can prove an item is OP because of the price.
I say that is not always true, and that there are enough exceptions that you can’t use that as a rule.
Am I the one thinking in black and white terms?
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So moral of the story is - nerf athenas. nerf them hard bc they need it.
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Yea they r busted af. If I dedicated the effort to Athenas that I have to Astraeus’ I’d be unstoppable.
Nerf Athena.
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Yes that distinction makes sense. You keep harping price while agreeing it is OP, like I am predicating my entire argument on price.
I added the price bit as supplemental evidence.
Stop.
You are only sucking your own d at this point.
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Athenas have more than double the range of destructors, half the width, only requires 2 not 3 of them, and requires half the time on target. That’s why destructors aren’t considered OP (just good weapons) because their short range actually gives it possible counter playstyles.
Athenas? No head-to-head counters PERIOD. Aside from super-long range sniping which is incredibly easy to take cover from.
Cannons? Athenas can tank a full volley while instant-killing two mastadons in a SINGLE ammo reload. What the hell…
Machine guns? Athenas strip any single machine gun, even 3 if they’re side-by-side, in a SINGLE BURST. Even a durable meta-miller omamori setup dies in 3 shots not even full volley required. That’s less than 3 seconds. The millers can only respond with less than half the damage at less than half the accuracy (and no heating) in the same time-frame. What benefit do millers have at all aside from not having to reload?
Wheels? Athenas strip any non-epic non-heavy wheel in a single burst. They strip any heavy wheel in two shots.
Real turn off for players when a hit-scan weapon, the lowest skill requirement weapon, just pops 70% of all guns in the game in one shot when built around.
Make Athenas have increased spread and reduced turning while firing the burst. There should not be a hit-scan, perfect accuracy weapon that doesn’t require ammo, heating or long rotation and deals that much damage (at long range) allowed in the game.
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I think athenas just needs a super massive durability nerf and that’s it so at least other weapons will stand a fighting chance of stripping them. It should have durability similar to retchers which would be around the 200 durability range. We are now at the end of the current mini bp so your gonna see loads of players with these upgraded microscopic 500 hp one shot wonders as if the standard version of the athena weren’t bad enough. Factor in the puny hitbox on athenas they are very tough to strip in time. I don’t know what the devs were thinking releasing this with anywhere close to 500 hp, breakers/punishers don’t even get that much hp and they are relics with much larger hitboxes.
The thing is the durability is not particularly high for the PS and energy cost and that’s not really the main issue. Sure you can cause Athenas to lose more but if you make it too glass cannon without fixing the miserable experience fighting them, then not only will they continue to be OP when not targeted but Athena players will also have a miserable time losing their guns too quick without having a chance to fight as much.
I say even make them more durable so you can actually play the game more/have longer fights but in return completely get rid of the cheatlike mechanics they have. It’s no fun playing a game where it’s who can pluck weapons in a heartbeat first if you get what I mean.
I think these things should be glass cannons just like retchers or assemblers, like why do athena get special treatment? retchers are insanely op but the main thing keeping it from being too too op is it’s lack of durability. Athena got a way smaller hitbox than retcher with the ability to play hitscan peak a boo with the chameleon at a decent range so why shouldn’t it be a glass cannon? players gonna have them armored up anyways using aegis prime and the only chance in hell of stripping them is to make them glass cannons. These things are still gonna be tough to strip even if you halfed its durability. I mean you got relics with much larger hitboxes, tougher to armour up, same energy drain and yet they got 100 less durability than athena, what gives?
I don’t think durability is the issue either.
They can just make a “horseshoe” hover or a spider with the guns buried.
To which, by the time you whittle away all the armor, it’s too late and you’re already dead.
You literally replied to the answer to your question.
I just laid out why making it glass cannon could FIX THE WIN RATE but make it not fun to play and I explained why the damage should be nerfed rather than the durability. Wretchers do EVEN MORE damage than Athenas but have severe range, speed, and size negatives that make it quite balanced.
I will repeat myself AGAIN. Making Athenas glass cannon WITHOUT NERFING THE DAMAGE is a bad idea. You can fix the win rate while making it overall enjoyable to play as, with and against Athenas and that’s by addressing the hit-scan and/or range.
I disagree and I stand firm on that assessment. I think the number one issue whither people realize it or not is that athena got way too much durability for it’s range/hitbox size. 200m range is nothing to scoff at either. I can recall countless times when I was fighting these things trying my best to land shots in between the bumpers that they were wedged in between for protection and the main thing saving it was the insane durability. These things can be armored up to an insane degree it don’t need 450-500 hp at least other players will stand a fighting chance of stripping them without killing the reason athenas were made in the first place.
You can’t hit much outside of 200 meters anyways. That’s the range I try to play inside don’t matter what weapon I’m using. I think destructors could use a little durability nerf as well. They can degun you in the blink of an eye so at least give that last non stripped weapon a dying fighting chance of taking one out on the way down.