Clan Wars needs an overhaul

Discussion
1

Hello, I see we have a new forum now. It’s gonna take some time for me to adjust to it (to say the least.)

Over the past several months, I have noticed that the number of clans that get at least 1 point is decreasing each week. While there may be teams that simply don’t win any games, or possibly lose more points than they win. I think most of those clans are choosing not to play in CW.

Another thing that I’ve observed is that a majority of the participating clans in CW are either in Rust or Tin leagues. A lot of the teams I’ve seen in Tin clans have Relics.

It seems like winning Uranium in CW is a Catch-22 for most players. Bronze league is required to earn Uranium after wins, but you will need Relic tier or Fused Legendary weapons to even make it to Bronze.

I have a few ideas that could help solve these issues:

  1. Better rewards for Rust and Tin leagues: These could be small amounts of Plastic for Rust, and Electronics for Tin. Or maybe reward players with Wires and Batteries for their respective leagues.

  2. Remove the CW blueprints: I get it, being put at a disadvantage due to the map sucks. But the Blueprint system favors the players with larger inventories and puts players with less inventory value at a big disadvantage.

  3. Fix or remove Leviathans from CW: It is extremely expensive to build an effective Leviathan for CW. Cockpit cabin and Boosters are almost mandatory for an effective Leviathan. I doesn’t sit right with me that the Cockpit Booster archetype dominates everything else.

  4. 6V6 CW mode: I think this mode would shake up the CW mode and make the mode more interesting.

  5. Enforce the leagues: Players in Low Tin should not be facing teams in Low Bronze. You don’t see a team in D3 facing off against a team in D1 in real life, do you? The same should apply to CW.

What do you think of these ideas? What ideas do you like? What ideas do you dislike? Feel free to share your ideas.

2 Likes
2

For this, just reward a small amount of uranium for wins.

I would say go up to 8v8 rather than 6v6 as the smaller of the two formats still causes balance problems (Just look at the survivor’s league events.).

3

I think they should some changes:
-Keep Levi CW, as there is a niche playerbase that plays it (im not in it, yet it would be worse to have more players leave the game due to the decision of a few groups of people)

- Yet, make so that during every CW sessions, one can choose to either play Classic CW or Levi CW, ie, not separating them into “exclusive” hours were if one wants to play classic cw, its not available and viceversa.

- And maybe for levi CW, there could be some banned parts to make the gamemode less constrictive, like a ban on the cockpit, the barrier and any other items that can be annoying to the gameplay, or who knows just a energy reduction on the levis exclusive for CW (invasion levis stay the same, due to them being completely AI controled), or something.

-Pls dont burn my house

4

Some people would argue that this would devalue Uranium. I don’t know what to say.

It would be more chaotic, It would be interesting to see that.

5

If you ban Cockpit Cabin, people will switch to cabins like the Humpback. I think it would irritate a lot of people too.
But, to be fair… Cockpit cabin is a little too powerful on a Leviathan. The Leviathans mass limit and energy negate the Cockpit’s drawbacks while still allowing it to have incredible speed and an insanely powerful perk.
Humpback could be countered by weapons like Incinerators.

I would like to see some manual aim on Leviathans.

Ahh man, what am I suppose to do with these molotov cocktails then?

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I disagree with removing CW blueprints. On 1 hand it gives an advantage to players with bigger inventories. But on the other hand it rewards players for investing in a multitude of different styles.

If you remove it I promise you youd regret it in a sea of green flames. Because it would mean meta first playstyle like in the old days. Everyone would run the exact same comp with few variations. While many do this now there would be a sizable increase in meta chasing.

Also removing blueprints now would be seen as punishing invested players to help out newbies. Which is always a bad move. Invested players keep the ship afloat afterall

As to Levi wars. A few fixes can be done immediately to improve it.

  1. Levi only shoots at target inside of the red box cursor while pressing the fire button. This makes it more skill based and gives greater command to the levi player. Guns still aim for you via ai. But player has to hold fire for ai to actually discharge the weapons.

  2. Levi wars on Wednesday. Give back tuesday to regular cw. This would make everyone happy. Only downsides to devs is greater uranium output

  3. Make levi exclusive cabs and remove levi perks so each levi is unique. The power boost and reload boost can be 2 different levi cabins. Non levi cabs not allowed on levi

7

@33029830
AzraelsGrace

  1. Works for me, it would be nice to have some manual aim as well. I like being in control of what and when my machine guns shoot enemies.

  2. Great idea!

  3. Nice idea, how about the Mass, Power, Speed, and Tonnage be dependent on the Leviathan cabin. I don’t want everyone flocking to the Light cabins for both high speed and high mass limit.

8

i love your views on the crossout world, but these are eazy trial and error and at the end of the day they would spice up the game, but they’re not solutions.
Option 1 will destabilize the market, might be in a good way or bad way, there’s no one who could tell.

Option 2 is a choice for the veterans and “the map”, indeed you are right that it drives new players off the game mode. If this happens they’ll have to work again on balancing, right now they have the excuse that you can play another build. you kinda see where this is going

Option 3 you describe perfectly what the mode is aka a money dump, cockpit is a deadly combo, speed and damage and the broken aim of the levi. Not to say that is not feasible to have a player that can wreak other 3 without even blinking.
A quick fix would be to weaken the levi, less energy, less powers, slower aim time so you’re forced to play as a titan/leviatan and not the fastest gun in the west , but that’s against the money dump idea. another idea would be to have a random levi every round and switch your team and starts around that. again a lot more expensive but SPICY As Fuck.
Should be tweaked indeed.

Option 4 Would be golden to have the option, but there’s a massive flaw, that they can never change, it’s been here for so long that i don`t even know if they didn’t build the game around it. it’s the face that teams are limited to 4 players, that’s the max, always been always will be, i ask so many times to make such changes for countless events. They’ll give you the excuse that the engine the game is built on is to old, ofc it is, but they don’t do anything about it. :frowning:

Option 5 the intent is good, but the execution is not possible, cause theoretically you can but should you.
To explain this is a console problem for years. You can see there that if they would be bound to a league, there would be a wait timer, from a few minutes to god knows how long, that’s why high diamond plays against bronze.

Again interesting ideas to spice up the game, but the real solution is to get more ppl in the game itself, not in cw.
The main problem is that there’s no skill gap, and this does not mean diamond and the guyz who can’t win in rust, it means all leagues. Unfortunately the company or the creative director behind this game wants something else.

Anyhow big rant, hope you have a good one. :expressionless:

1 Like
9

Now that i think about it, the problem with relics in tin is the fact that point are earned less but lost more, ( wins give you 8-9-10 loses give you 9-10-11) this is from experience, seems like the ration favors the loss side.
A solution would be to enlarge the leagues and ration to favor the wins. I understand that this could turn it into a time bump, but cw it’s already a very time consuming mode.

10

That would be the main point of doing that. Uranium is the highest cost of a relic, lowering that cost would be a great thing.

It would be the only way clan wars could be balanced. PvP as an 8v8 works because it is chaotic, a highly controlled environment like clan wars leads to stale metas and walls that become nigh unsurmountable.

11

Depends on who you ask. People with lots of resources might hate the idea. But I think it might attract more people.

I was originally for the Blueprint idea. Because it seemed like the game would randomly favor one team over the other. Whether it’s due to the map, or if one team naturally countered another. I then realized that it would mainly benefit teams with larger inventory.

Fair enough, it would be nice if the game allowed for 6 or 8 stack teams.

I wish this game wasn’t so grindy and so hostile to newer players. I see the new players as life blood in the game. Veteran players will eventually quit. People won’t spend more money on a game if they think its player base is near death.
I don’t know if the game is dying or not, but I don’t see it thriving.

Thank you for you input. I hope you have a good one as well.
Sorry about the late response.

1 Like
12

Don’t know if this is a problem on consoles too, but at least on PC, they should put the first uranium league (Bronze, is it?) as a safe league. So that once a clan gets to the uranium level, they stay there and earn uranium on each win. This would accumulate more points in the CW ladder and fill the market with a lot more uranium. That would make the uranium and relics cheaper again and thus available to more potential new competitors.

I honestly disagree with this. Without this, every CW team would consist of three “dogs” and one porcuckpine hover. I mean, it’s not much different now, but you get the idea. It’s not always the rich players that benefit from this, a lot of old whales are such one-trick-ponies it’s not even funny, while some cheaper build can be useful at a certain scenario while it wouldn’t be viable to bring it into a match if you had only that one option. Also, most players that aren’t fully equipped for CW aren’t willing to sell everything they’ve got to invest in one meta CW build while losing all other options they have for “normal” play, while they may have at least some degree of success with a bunch of cheap-ish builds.

I think this could lead to very long queue times in certain regions and leagues. I think there’s likely an algorithm in place that already puts a prefference on matchmaking clans close together in the rankings, but the limit expands as a party spends time in the queue. IMHO a good idea would be to give a clan that’s not on uranium level uranium if they manage to defeat a team that is in a uranium league. (And perhaps give players who earned the Bronze league limit uranium if they beat a team that’s in Silver with higher caps on how much uranium you can earn).

As for Leviathan and 6v6 CW… I think that only the levi CW could possibly be made into a 6v6 - to decrease the importance of the leviathan in the battle. 4v4 is enough for regular CW.

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CW is suffering from a lot of problems at the moment yeah,(as is the whole game in general) and I agree that something needs to change.

Improved rewards for rust and tin are something that i would agree with. I would lean towards a small cap of uranium really, at least for tin. maybe a 10-20 uranium cap, or a weekly reward for CW games played (latter would help all ranks ofc)

Blueprints sounded like a good idea in theory to be honest. but in practice they just punish people with smaller inventories, and make cw much less accessible for newer players. They also result is rather stale rock-paper-scissors style games at higher ranks. the counter picking element can be fun, but the resulting games tend to feel like forgone conclusions that were won or lost on the build select screen. I would agree with them being removed, if certain cookie cutter setups get suitable nerfs or reworks first (looking at you scorp+melee/full fire teams).

Leviwars has probably done more damage to the cw player base than any other factor, fully agree with its removal. I do however accept that a few teams like it, but it dosen’t justify taking up so many of the mid week sessions. It totally ruins the flow of the week. Stick it on monday/sunday, or make it a separate que in my opinion.

the levi vote was taken before they had the reload perk, before cockpit existed, and before they put soft caps on the weapons you could use. I guarantee that if they had a second vote now it would be an overwhelming NO…

6v6 or 8v8 would be interesting, it would be nice to see a trial of it at least. BUT I cant imagine most CW clans can even get 8 people together to play currently. if this were to be introduced I think that clan member caps would need increasing to at least 30-40.
I would like to see trials of 5v5 or 6v6, see how it plays our for a few weeks, but i am not sure the player base is big enough to support anything above 6 players per team in cw.
3v3 would be interesting to see too tbh, although melee gets exponentially stronger with fewer players, so 3 probably wouldn’t work well without a griffon nerf.

And enforcing leagues more heavily? we just don’t have the players for it tbh. imagine playing in diamond, 15-20 min ques to just face the same 2 teams over and over. I think the current matchmaking is about the best we can hope for unless we start getting more players into the mode.

Overall I like most of your ideas! but I think that the devs have to fix a few glaring balance problems before making any larger changes to cw in general.

Fire damage needs a full rework, ideally to remove the penetration and give the builds more variety.
flash and spark need reworking entirely.
beholder/hadron/griffon power levels all need large nerfs.
griffon perk needs to apply TO chameleon so melee don’t stay off radar for basically the entire game (hard to be aggressive and take map if the enemy have even one griffon lance that could literally be anywhere)
scorpions need their reload speed looking at, they generally benefit from the increased module variety more than any other ranged weapon and got hurt the least by the horrible reload changes.
It would also be lovely if we could get rid of some gun mounts! we just have too many after the 4 elbows were added… elbows don’t even look like a pass through part! jees.

I would like to see all that done before they try to make sweeping changes to the entire mode. (except leviwars, that needs to go away)

1 Like
14

Increasing clan size wouldn’t be an issue.

The playerbase size doesn’t exist because clan wars has been a burning dumpster fire for so long. Make it less of one and players will return or start getting involved.

3v3 would just be even worse than it currently is. 4v4 is broken already.

The current MMing is what is killing clan wars. At the start of these changes it will be rough because clan wars has lost players but not enforcing the leagues is only going to keep causing more players to leave the mode.

Only at the start. As the dumpster fire that is clan wars is put out, more players will get involved in the mode because it will actually be viable for them to so do.

And without removing it, clan wars comes down to who has the biggest inventory.

All that is also ignoring how clan wars would get a larger format like 6v6 or higher. That breaks the current meta and offers significantly more options for players.