How can the bot immediately undercut you when the bot got at least a 10 minute delay. It won’t be immediate but 10 minutes instead thus giving you a 10 minute window where the bot can’t undercut your bid. I can’t automatically undercut people on decor for at least 30 minutes so immediate undercuts is not possible with a delay system.
I’m still a bit confused.
I had assumed that the delay was specific to each player, and triggered when they make a bid.
But from your last post, it sounds more like you are imagining a system where anyone placing a bid freezes the price for ten minutes for everyone. Am I understanding correctly?
If that is what you are saying, the problem remains: the bot will be primed to undercut you the second the timer runs out, blocking any non-bots from making a bid.
Yes, it would give you ten minutes where someone might potentially buy/sell the item at your price, but that is a pretty short window for most items.
Market bots would still have the advantage, because they’ll have the fastest reflexes to slip in a bid and lock the price.
I still say it’s better to just make your bid a big enough price jump that the bots chicken out. From what you describe, it sounds like their limits might not be based on percentage profit, but rather by a certain minimum coin profit. Figure out what that limit is, and you should be able to bid just past that limit.
the 10 minutes is only for high price items you sell.
within the 10 minutes the bots will force the price down dramatically.
and market tax at 10% and not 1% 'which we shouldn’t have tax anyway is crazy for a video game
Wait, this system is already in place on PC?
I thought Nobler was proposing something new that he thought would fix things.
I am super confused now.
Pretty sure we don’t have that on console.
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started already while posting this lol
'so now i have to lower my price so i can sell it? 
‘‘i find it really hard to believe that players have the same weapon im selling at the same time’’
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They are not gonna chicken out unless the roi gets to next to zero, I have been investigating and gathering evidence of the bots on the PC platform for well over a year so no one is more qualified to be lecturing about this than I so please trust what I say.
It applies to everyone equally and preferably you would want a 30 minute delay on legedaries and up. The 30 minute delays is parts of the reason why the bots are not on paints/decor where it is very peaceful to do business.
I know what the limit is, I even made a data sheet and the limit is way too small for the minimum bid size to work. It is about 10 coin profit give or take with a large enough sample size from over a year of evidence gathering. Now thats just for poharon by the way and elyons profit margins are even smaller still(that player is mainly on specials/epics)
What I am proposing is simply adding a delay to purchases just in the same way that selling works. Decor has 30 minute selling delays, legendaries/epics had 10 minute delays most of time and what I am proposing is adding delays to buying as well just in the same way that selling got delays currently. Also another thing they could do is add even longer delays(like an hour or so) for abnormal amounts of high price items being moved either on the sell side or buy side.
Adding delays is only gonna give everyone more of an equal chance of getting an item at the price they wants. Yes the bots or the people playing clikity click mouse wars penny bidding will still have an advantage but that advantage will be much much smaller and will only discourage further micro second penny game bidders from ruining peoples day.
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If you know the limit, then you can outbid them.
Sure, your profit might not be as big, but some profit is better than no profit.
And if that profit is based on current prices, you can take advantage of the bots even more by keeping track of when a specific item is trading outside of its usual range, and sitting on stuff until things swing the other direction.
Not saying it erases the problem, just that any automated bidder can be taken advantage of once you know how it works.
I don’t think we have delays on console, but I also don’t think there are bots playing the market either.
It doesn’t sound like the current system of delays has fixed much, has it?
The Crossout market is based on something similar to an auction system, which in real life is also about people making bids in small increments until someone gives up. I’m not sure how you really fix that, since it’s built into the system. Slowing it down doesn’t really change that much.
research–sell a legendary on market,look to see if it is delayed, then cancel the order. that’s what i did.
then let us know if its the same on console. 
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It might be a few days before I can test it out. Usually I’d be off work today, but I’m filling in for someone; and I don’t tend to play much on work evenings.
I will investigate though, unless someone beats me to it.
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10 coin is chump change, my margins are about 50 coin minimum and that is only for items that sell multiples like wheels. They don’t be on every item so i fish for the items they are not on and stake it out. Even when they are on a item I am on I still keep my bid there. For instance the bot might have one bid on the aspect but I know all too well from years of experience that people sell at least 2(especially wheels/tracks) so i can get one or two right behind the bot.
I also got other tricks up my sleeve to bypass the bots. One trick is to find items with only one high buy or low sell offer and sneak one right behind by being second in line. The bots also tend to stay away from items with little traffic and some of those items are epic/legendary weapons/cabs like icebox for inctance that i tend to have free reign on to gobble up for the taking.
Edit: I also like to add that going down to 10 coin profit margins is only gonna decrease my profits. I make between 15k to 20k per month from the market alone which equates to about 40k on console.
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That’s the kind of thing I’m talking about. Until the devs can figure out a way to actually stop market bots completely, your best bet is to figure out their parameters and limitations and work around it.
From your research, do they set their profit limits based on current buy/sell prices, or is it possible they’re basing it on what they originally bought at?
They use an rng within a certain range and their bids are also based on the rng within a range of .01 to .05 coin. I think the profit cutoffs may be based around something similar.
I already got it figured out and explained some of my strategies in a previous post, I’ve been working around those bots for over a year now. I still make a ton of coin but soon gonna retire I think, I am just about drove nuts with it to be honest.
I’m not sure what you mean by that, but I suspect you didn’t understand my question.
What I meant was whether the bots’ limits are based on the profit potential between the current lowest and highest bids, or on the actual profit based on what they actually bought the item for.
Depending on how they define profit in their model, it changes how you can respond, and shifts where the limits are.
It is based on the current profit potential between the lowest and highest. When you go to the market there is a tab to sort items by profit. They also use an rng to determine the cutoff point. One item could be 8 coin cutoff, next item could be 12 coin cutoff but the range is very close. They do that most likely to avoid detection and appear less robotic.
Also heres some of the items i caught them on plus the mandrake i posted above if there is still any doubt left. This is why the pc market especially on epics is a crap show. They are not on baby rares no more I don’t think, the profit margin used to be way smaller. Sometimes they do adjust the software
It is possible that it might not be an rng, and might actually be based on what they bought it for. That would also explain the small fluctuations you’re seeing. It would be hard to prove either way though, as I don’t think we have any way to verify what the bot paid.
Unless you deliberately sell an item to a bot, and then track what they resell it for, while increasing your bid until they tap out.
Much more work than I would be willing to do, but might be useful to pin down.
Are you thinking the RNG aspect is to evade detection? That’s possible, but if I were trying to prevent market bots I would be looking at reaction time, not the profit margins. But I’m also not a dev, so they might think differently.
- cue Mud making a joke about how I actually do work for Gaijin
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I am not entirely sure but I am 100% positive that their bid sizes are rng based. For example: let’s say i had to put in a offer on the catalina for 2700 than has long has the profit is large enough than either Poharon or elyon will come out with a bid that is either 2700.01.2700.02, 2700.03, 2700.04 or 2700.05. The range is always within .05 coin. So i can’t exactly say their profit criteria are rng based (I don’t have enough data for that anyways) but their bid sizes are.
well i gave up on it for the most part and it shouldn’t be my responsibility but the devs instead but some of the things you can take away from it especially if you watched my video that I linked is that the most incriminating factor is the amount of patches they had before the devs banned viewing hidden profiles.
Elyon for example was at about 1200 epic patches(18 000 epics bought and sold) alone back in february and only earned rockefeller 5 in June of 2023(I earned that patch in 2018 for comparison). To put that in perspective I earned 191 epic patches( 2865 epics bought and sold) in my entire crossout career and then miraculously some random manages to earn 10 times that amount in just 8 months, yea right lol.
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Ok, we are talking about two different things.
What I’m asking about is how the bots set their own limits of when to stop bidding, not the value of the individual increments.
There are potentially a variety of ways that limit could be set, and establishing how that works gives you some tools to abuse them with, as that system should be consistent.
The limit could be percentage profit, or it could be a specific coin amount regardless of the percentage. And that “profit” could be defined by current prices, or by the actual profit from what the bot purchased the item for. There are likely a bunch of other factors that could determine when the bot will stop making bids, but I am not smart enough to identify them at the moment.
Poony4u like I said before the bots cutoff points are way too low to even bother. It is actually more profitable to just keep the price as low as possible, keep an offer in behind theirs(unless it’s a cab) which is what I’ve been doing for a long time. I can easily flip like 1 or 2 aspects, destructors etc at like 100 coin each which is around 200 coin equivalent on console So if that were on say playstation that would be like 400 coin total profit equivalent. Poharon usually does 1 item per legendary and not 2 or 3 which is what I exploits to make coin. Epics is where elyon is too mostly and that player does do multiples of each item unlike poharon so it is harder to pull off on epics but depends which bot I’m dealing with.
There’s a lot of nuances too it that is going to be long and very hard to explain. Elyon does multiple while poharon does not but elyon is also not on legendaries while poharon is however so I tend to just stick with legendaries and some epics for the most part cause it is easier to gobble up the scraps and you get way more money per sale so I’m exhausting way way less energy even if it means I am making slightly less coin, the amount of physical energy saved as a result makes it worth it.
So bottom line it is going to be very difficult to explain every crook and cranny of their behaviour. All you really need to know is that there are at least 2 players on the market using a very weird auto bid software. I know all the nuances of the PC crossout market from expensive decor like the royal trophy which cost 10k coin on pc, to relics, to how fast they tend to sell, to how likely you are to get outbid per each individual item etc etc I can wiggle my way around the market really easily just from years of experience.