in a ways yes and no. many people have different views on things and we can all agree to disagree. we have our reasons for hating something, liking something and being in the middle with something.
i pretty much stand in the category of “it can be good but can be bad to” side of things with hitscan. for some weapons it can be absolutely terrible but with others its downright broken. some weapons are ok with it and were usually balanced around it. kaiju with hitscan was absurdly strong. mgs and miniguns were mostly balanced around it. the thing that made it worse was aim assist. AA made hitscan really broken and i believe thats part of the reason why AA was nerfed to.
everyone has a different opinion here man. just the people on reddit are more… toxic… in the ways they like to express their opinions on things.
yeaaaaah but why was that an issue? scorpions were a sniping weapon, if you poked your head out and got your gun taken off whos fault is that?
if you got your gun sniped from half way across the map then good shot to the guy who made that shot but still, whos fault is that that their gun got shot off?
“boohoo this scorpion gut shot my breaker off from across the map”
BECAUSE ITS A FUCKEN SNIPING WEAPON!!! thats exactly what the scorpion was made for! sniping! what are you going to give EVERY damn weapon out there invulnerability because the scorpion can take most weapons off in 1 hit? omg people.
hammerfall did not have nearly the same stats. breaker had 3 times the range and alot more damage. hammerfall had almost half the hp the breakers do and can be degunned easily.
sure they were smaller but it didnt mean much.
the stats they show on the cards they have are not accurate at all. they literally mean nothing. stats may look similar but hammerfalls are a legendary and breakers are a relic.
just tested them to.
right now hammerfalls need to be about 30m away to deal damage.
breakers need to be about 55m away.
this means nothing though because breakers got a hard nerf to their range. back then they could easily hit at roughly 100m away while hammerfalls could hit at maybe 50 at the most.
breakers didnt have much damage drop off either, they could still do significant damage even at range.
sounds about right. helios builds were hell to deal with but i had some success with things like mgs with them. though i mostly ran cannons in cw lol.
except that scorpio was (and arguably still is) the only one actually op long-range weapon in the game.
and snipers are one of the most hated class in every single game regardless of genre. it doesn’t have a good counterplay, dying from them feels undeserved and most of all - you can’t even interact with them. if “interaction” can be boiled down to “randomly die because you’ve decided to play the game” then i’m not interacting and uninstalling the game.
i mean lol. even lance builds had some kind of interaction involved.
you can decloak them by spamming your weapons like a madman on the chokepoints, or better yet - use prediction. you can see where they are by watching wheel trails or using verifier / oculus. damn, since invis got nerfed, like, 3 or so years ago, you can even spot their semi-transparent craft when they’re nearby and literally shoot off all its lances before it rams into you.
sure, they’re annoying to deal with, but at least you can interact with them in some way that feels fair and you can even win despite fighting on their terms. but scorpio? naaah you can’t interact with scorpio players in the same way.
I didn’t have a problem with hitscan, but I also have no problem with them being changed to projectile weapons, and I like the ammo change.
For me, MGs work as well as they did before, once you adjust to the bullet speed.
SGs suffered a lot more, but the incoming projectile size buff should help. Besides, SGs had been too dominant in mid-PS for too many years.
I am not seeing the lag issues others are complaining about, but that may just be because I’m on console. Optimizing things for PC is more complicated, especially when people don’t update their OS regularly.
i mean, compare gravastar with hammerfalls? i’ve tried a 11k gravastar build while playing with my 15k friend in random battles. despite me picking it for the lulz i was reliably getting MVPs.
i’ve also recently tried hammerfalls and it was UNBELIEVABLY AWFUL. like it literally SUCKS to play them.
btw gravs still have hitscan. and this matters alot. literally try both of these (not at the same time though) and you’ll understand what i mean
edit: oh you’re a console player nevermind lol, of course these nerfs didn’t matter to you because of all the differences
try scorpions with a nova cabin. you wanna talk about something thats extremely irritating to fight then you dont get anymore mind numbingly frustrating then that. get into a 1v1 with them using a cannon vs hovers on a nova cab. those builds pissed me off the most.
scorpions are vulnerable up close… unless your a bot…
Even before the hitscan change, gravastars were much better than hammerfalls.
I was so disappointed when I finally got some hammerfalls, expected them to be much better.
But like I said, the hitscan change hurt SGs the most. I am hopeful that that projectile size change corrects this, and that new module might help too. I suspect they may need to increase the range of SGs a bit though.
you’ll need to get close to a sniper, which isn’t possible because you need to fight through his entire team and avoid getting deleted by the said sniper, and then you’ll have some fighting chance. that applies to any PvP game with a sniper class.
but in crossout scorpio can deal these ~500-1000 damage regardless of distance. so scorpio player is just as deadly in close range as in mid or high distance.
i had a bit more rounds ofc, about a thousand, even before crossout info was a thing. but yeah, i’ve used scorpio and honestly this thing deserves to be nerfed to the ground
you need to get as close as possible to your enemy (because of limited range, damage falloff and low accuracy). assuming you didn’t ate shit and collected all the projectiles of your mid to long ranged enemy builds in the process.
then you also need to aim at crits AND calculate where your shots will land… no, fixes like this would never be enough.
literally the only way i can think of to make SG/MGs viable again is… yup, hitscan revert. or partial hitscan revert. like, you know that your spread becomes more noticeable the longer you fire? do the same thing but with bullet speed.
for shotguns first 3 shots will have hitscan (~0.6 seconds of firing)
for machineguns it will be 7 (~1.5 seconds of firing)
for rapid-fire machineguns it will be ~2 seconds of fire + buff their bullet travel speed, because their spread is already bad enough.
idk what kind of scorpions your fighting but unless they are over charging those things your at most taking 500 - 550 damage. i believe each scorpion does 265 damager per scorpion per shot. bot scorpion shots go through your entire build, player scorps dont. at the most they will go through some pieces of armor and stop. if they hit the cabin then yeah itll stop dead in its tracks and dump all the damage, or the rest of the damage if it went through armor, into the cabin. yes scorps can be dangerous but your armor can absorb damage to and so can your cabin. plus they reload and require ammo to. the downside now is that builds now require ammo packs which the scorpions can take advantage of. back then weapons like arbiters never had to worry about that. hell even punishers could do some serious damage to them if left unchecked.
I guess it depends on what we mean by viable. I think you are talking more about CW, and I’m not sure that applies to PVP, which is what most people are spending most of their time playing.
I’ve seen reapers make a big comeback lately in CC for example. And I’ve been playing a vindicator/machinist/meatgrinder build in high PS lately, and not feeling like I’m struggling too much.
MGs could become more relevant with just a range buff. The projectile issue isn’t really what’s holding them back.
Shotguns are a different story.
The reason Gravastar performs so much better than normal shotguns is the heating effect. Same reason flamethrowers are better than shotguns. It allows them to function more like alpha damage weapons, which is what close range attacks need to do.
In the past, shotgun wedges and harvester builds could perform well largely because immobilizing your victim gave you enough time to tear them apart. But that’s just not enough anymore, and the wedge fix also made it harder to achieve (but this was for the best).
The other thing gravastars have is that it doesn’t seem like they have the same damage drop off over distance, which means you don’t have to pin your victim.
I just tried out the new update, but the only shotgun builds I had ready were fafnirs, and they’re not a good enough gun to get a real sense of the change. However, they did feel better, and I’m now curious to see if the automatic shotguns are also feeling better.
The projectile update really messed something up with shotguns, but there’s no reason they need to be hitscan to be effective. I’d give them a bit more range, and less damage drop off over that range. Possibly some damage buffs to a few of them too.
The only relic hitscans were breakers and punishers. If there was a relic nothung/arbiter/spectre it would be a very different story. During breaker meta there were no good hitscan machineguns worth using in CW besides the punisher. The aspect has been unusable for years, the reaper isn’t hitscan let alone a precise machinegun, its more of an autocannon. Imps were never going to be competitive against breakers and even hammerfall aegis builds. I see a hole in your argument here. The problem that the playerbase had with hitscan were all the hitscan hovers at 6k+ powerscore stripping an entire team’s guns with nothungs/arbiters/spectres/sinus for years. In CW there still aren’t machineguns that fill this niche as they do in lower powerscore (Where the vast majority of the playerbase lives and dies)
Make them infinite range like summators/arguments with 1 damage per pellet minimum so they can decloak. That automatically makes them the absolute best weapons in game for decloaking and gives them tremendous utility against dogs/hit and run glass cannon builds.
Yeah, at one time across all of the meta “face hugging” builds have an advantage when it come to dealing with “alpha dmg” be it wedges, late was dog builds, going to a mix with the breaker kami builds, to fin whale Shotgun build, up to this point where SG’s are obsolete if you are not a gravastar user.
Right now i dont know what the close range meta is, but my 2 Breakers i got after over 6 years of effort are currently worthless as aiming with them is hard for me, now that they have fall of proyectiles and an even reduced max range since i have moderate-bad ping (130 NA and 220 EU), but hey that’s a SKILL ISSUE from my part am i right?, guess ive gotta ignore the 6 years of grind i put in and buy some gravastars…
So yeah, hit-scan removal was the better option isnt it proyectile bros?
jackie, jay damage buffs, cab buffs, ally mars buffs and so on. It isn’t 2019 where you can’t buff your damage directly if you aren’t using energy weapons. 1000 dmg is common, you can even deal 1500+ rarely
yes and no. it helps against large crits such as cab or weapons like mammoth, but it doesn’t have any significant impact over other, smaller parts.
and also that too.
what i mean is that every single machinegun could counter breakers easilly, but there were barely any machineguns because you’d get countered by 2 of the most popular builds in the game. you don’t need 3 punishers to destroy a weapon that has 1 hp after it procs its perc, so…
yup, that’s actually an issue. i remember sinus hovers on 6k PS too, there was also a proto-BfU happening at that time.
but it’s not hitscan that was an issue… it’s the hovers.
