Lazy Suggestion 2: Movement

Discussion
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Attention! If your response is ‘Play at lower ps’ or ‘Git gud’ or something similar, please dont bother replying. I want genuine thought out replies.

Heres part two of my suggestions to tuning crossout. This topic will focus on movement parts.

Currently we have 4 methods of movement. Wheels, Legs, Hovers, and Tracks.

Now ill be frank. Im no expert on how cabin power works exactly, As well as how wheel max speeds and cabin max speeds interact. However im going to look at movement parts individually and sort of ignore the rest for the sake of this post. I wont be going through all the parts, but may mention a few specifics.

  1. Hovers.

Lets just get hovers out of the way. Hovers have had to be reworked an ungodly amount of times. Most people feel they should have never been added to the game and honestly I agree with that because they outclass every other movement part in every department besides durability, but the compact and easy to armor nature of hovers eliminates that. However the cats out of the bag. They are here to stay so instead of crying about removing them lets come up with a reasonable solution.

The devs have seemingly tried everything to balance hovers. Tweaking tonnage and power score and flight height and flight physics and none of it has worked. They only ever come back stronger. However I believe the solution is extremely simple.

A. Change hovers to legendary. There wont ever be a movement part besides the new propellor that outclasses hovers. They will always be strong and Should as such, be more expensive to craft. Make it harder and more expensive for everyone and their mothers to get their hands on hovers. Sorry not sorry.

B. This is gonna be controversial as hell, But fuck it. This is in my opinion the ONLY solution that can ever truly work on hovers, and ill explain my reasoning. Make hovers cost energy. 1 point per hover.

Heres why. Hovers can look in any direction, while going in any direction, at higher speeds than most vehicles can achieve. They can make literally any weapon work, and work extremely well. So with the highest mobility and as such highest survivability in the game, I think its reasonable to say they shouldnt have anywhere near as much firepower as anyone else whilst doing it. Energy is how we make that determination.

Alongside the energy cost I do think tonnage should be looked at again.

Enough said.

  1. Wheels.

Oh wheels. They are where this all began. Most wheels honestly are fine as is. However they really do need to be looked at when it comes to sliding during turns over rough terrain, and how the speed seems to drop off and get hung while turning.

On the other hand theres omnis which are their own animal. Omnis are like hovers but worse. I think they could use a tiny bit of work on how they accelerate sideways, and maybe take a tiny hit to their top speed to compensate. We dont want omnis to be the only wheels anyone ever uses, and for what they bring in sideways motion they need to be slower on the forwards movement.

Also Id like to see a purple pair of wheels that like the shivs does melee damage, but instead of blades it has flames that can heat up opponents. Thatd be neat.

  1. legs.

Only two pairs of legs currently. Ml200s are fine.

Bigrams however are a different animal, because as soon as you lose one you can get stuck at an angle because of how they lean to one side.

I think a good thing for bigrams would be if lets say you have 6 legs. 3 on each side.

one side is (Left) L L R (Right). If you lose that right, the next right left should turn and become a right (assuming they have the room). This would make them a bit more manageable. But honestly thats one of those pipedream ideas.

Besides that I feel the wheeled mode for bigrams could really use a bit more acceleration. I find myself crabbing straight then switching back to wheels once I have the momentum but it can get quite obnoxious managing that in battle and god help you if you clip one of those static wrecked cars that dont break bringing you to a full stop or faceplanting you into a wall. lol.

  1. Tracks.

I love tracks. I use tracks all the time. For the most part they work great. However two things bug me.

first off. None of them have true perks. Its just some damage resistance which should be seperate from a perk in my opinion because it makes all tracks same same but different but still same. and thats not good.

Second, Armored tracks and goliaths need a flip function. I hate that they always only point one direction.

Right now the larger tracks are kinda down the bin as far as movement. Sure they can turn in place, and they do act as soft armor. But I think they could use a bit more oomph as far as movement goes. I think that giving them the ability to forcibly turn out of a pin, and giving them a bit more fortitude as far as getting pushed around by other vehicles goes, would do wonders for helping them stand out more.

otherwise smaller tracks are fine as is.

  1. Heli rotor

Give us two so we can make chinooks and ospreys lol.

Give them a slight forward tilt so they move forward on their own a bit better, making us less reliant at looking at the ground to achieve high speed.

Well thats all. its late and im pooped. If you liked this and want to check out my other suggestions, check my posts. Ill be making more of these over the next few weeks. Feel free to discuss!

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At risk of beating a very dead horse…

I think adding a little more realism would solve all these issues.

Hovers, if they were a real thing, would never work the way they do in Crossout. They simply lift too much weight. I say that because the closest things we have in real life are either super light weight (drones) or super cumbersome (VTOL aircraft). If they were to make hovers more realistic so they had to be super light, it’d solve all the hover issues. It’d be nearly impossible to armor them… just like in real life.

Wheels… I think they’re generally fine, but wish they had better differentiated traction values for each design.

Legs… They’re simply too slow for the benefits they offer, IMO. You’re right about Big Rams, and when I use them, I’m careful with balancing things out.

Tracks… Like legs, the big ones are too slow. I’m fine with no perk since a Goliath build takes forever to kill from the side.

Heli… whatever. LOL

You forgot Augers.

These are actually my fave. They’re fast enough to keep up with most builds, and the perk on a 15k mass build is insane. They’re the only sideways build I still use. Three up front, staggered left & right, and one in the rear. If you miss Harvesters being feasible in battle, try a sideways auger build. I set them up so the rig only needs the rear auger and ONE front auger to still work (it takes some effort with the frame set-up). So, the two front-most augers are just massive melee weapons.

If I were to change anything about them, it’d be to make their melee damage happen with a frontal collision so I didn’t have to build sideways to use the perk.

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okay,interested. gotta get to work in a bit but I’ll be back tonight to add my 2 cents.

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I totally agree

They use to, each wheel had its own traction, thus the whine and cheese people cried and now we got each rarity that has its own traction, take the lunar wheels, they used to skid/slide on none sand maps, etc

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I dont disagree with what youre getting at here at all. However, Ive got to play devils advocate here.

First, Lets be honest. in game there is no real good way to limit hovers tonnage to make them realistic.

If they get nerfed into the ground, They wont be able to use certain weapons, they wont be able to armor up much at all, Or people will just slap as many on their build as it takes to compensate for the nerfed tonnage.

Hovers would all end up looking the same (they already do but even more so) and playing like ass and I dont think completely killing them so no one wants to play them is a good solution at all.

If you want to talk realism, Ive always been under the impression that hovers arent just mini jet engines, Ive always assumed they are a form of Ion engine (Considering dawns children are space themed, I think thats a safe bet).

Ion engines require lots of power to work, hence why they dont work well in real life. We just dont have a good enough power source to fuel them and give them a reasonable amount of thrust.

Seeing as we have energy shields and other stuff in crossout. Id say its a safe bet that dawns children figured out how to optimize them. That being said, It still makes more sense to me that they should cost Energy to operate. Not just from a realism but also a balance perspective.

I was tired af last night and I knew I was forgetting something. I do love augers. They look cool, They move quite smoothly. And the perk is very fun to play with. Not to mention they are the easiest of the ‘Tracks’ to build around. I think they are pretty well balanced.

They always remind me of the chinese Chimera tank from fallout 3’s operation anchorage haha

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Also yes. I totally agree. But only because Augers, Omnis, And hovers outclass them nearly entirely.

Also doesnt help that building fenders for legs that look good is a pain in the ass… :joy:

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here’s my 2 cents:

I can see you put a lot of time and effort into thinking about all this, so, thank you. Let’s hope the devs take some notes on it all.

As for what I think about balancing it all, here’s what I got: I think Crossout, as a whole, should be slightly revamped in the way that it tells it’s lore. How will that help balancing?

Imagine, looking at the World Map with its raid and brawl icons, and PvP icons. When we hover the mouse over one of those icons we, already, get a window with a small tidbit of what it’s all about. I think that, in these windows, there should be a timestamp of sorts, that is to say, what year this moment took place in the Crossout’s history. Further, each year would have limited movement parts available for use in the fights. The Melee brawls can take place in the early years of Crossout, the weaponized brawls and raids can be in the middle years of Crossout and, then, hover brawls and raids can take place in the future of Crossout.

Like the Propeller, currently, hovers would not be allowed in PvP.
All movement parts would, however, be allowed in Adventure Mode.

That’s my 2 cents.

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Both A and B probably wouldn’t work.

issues with A as much as this sounds ideal increasing PS by that amount would decimate smaller hovers. A small quad hover can be competitive up till around 13k any more than that it get crippled fast. Mine scores in at 9.7k and I’ve gone into matches as high as 15K with it. It gets super uncomfortable at the higher PS’s and mistakes on smalls are normally an early death sentence.

The reason B will not work is we don’t get that much energy to start with. So if a 4x hover requires 4en or for me to equip an Apollo to be at baseline energy however to support the weight I then have to add more hovers. Typically 2 more depending on the rest of the payload. This means 10 or less energy for hovers which would just cripple them completely with the exception of some low energy high damage weapons like porcs.

I’ve mentioned before that we should first attempt to work it out in power drain which is an easy data point to switch. If we raise the cost by 2% it should significantly lower their acceleration. If that is not enough then incrementally raise by 1 it till it fits. After that I would also suggest lowering the IIV’s speed by 5 which would allow the omni and small tracks to out pace them for speed.

I’ve made other suggestions in regard to bring them more in line with other movement parts too but I’m not going to copy them over as they exist in the other threads.

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On your second point I agree with this a flip function would be rather neat. You forgot to include tank tracks in. I had thought about this before while looking at those.

I also agree with that they need real perks. Some of the resistances should be raised as well on the slower tracks. Particularly fire (laser) the rate of heating should be brought down due to the size of the part.

I think many of the tracks beyond hardened need their acceleration to be increased as well as their rotation speed at a stand still. They have to be able to play peekaboo well.

The goliath and tank tracks I would increase the amount of mounting points on as well.

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Play on lower ps, git gud and something similar

But for real talk, the slower hovers seem pretty balanced currently, for a hover, but the faster ones are still the top movement option out there that just makes you near invincible. I don’t think they’ll ever change that by this point, if they do, there is always mass crying and any supposed change will not go through. It’s become a norm

Wheels just were screwed over as a whole by the supercharged update, I haven’t played wheels after that, I hate everything about their performance now. I’d rather they just revert all wheels back to how they were before the supercharged update

Same with legs, they are now just a worse Omni, which is a worse hover, I don’t like them loosing their identity with being yet another movement part that works the same as omni/auger/hover, I liked them more before the update

I am too poor to have any tracks currently and can’t offer any input as I haven’t played them after the update, at all

Omnis are now much better than what they were before imo, the supercharged update made the omnis and hovers much better and balanced compared to how they were before the supercharged update, but the same update made wheels suck, pretty much once again making wheels be worse than hovers as a norm

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I hear this a lot but people don’t go into what they feel was changed? Can you elaborate on what the changes were that you dislike along with which wheels you think were affected?

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clears throat

Get gud

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That’s not really helping…

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Tenshi is right. He does really good with his porch aegis Omni build…

…in matches that I’m not on the other team.

I’ll double down.

Get good

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I think people who feel like wheels were hurt by the update have builds where either the front or rear were heavy. Mass balance makes a much bigger difference now, although you can compensate for it by moving your ST wheels to other positions.

I play wheels and I like them since the update. But I had to fix some of my builds.

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Remove and replace them. They look stupid and goofy even though I’m not for much realism in XO. These morons in DC don’t have fixed wing aircraft with simple radial air cooled engines, but have half a dozen separate turbine engines just to hover a few meters over desert sand. They need to just out and replace them with a spherical maglev wheel.

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Yea make them cost 1 energy each and give them a perk to compensate such as the flames that shoots from the hovers burns opponents underneath so it be like having a firebug for your movement parts. That will discourage all those hovers as well from camping behind the enemy team or making quick getaways and encourage more close up combat. Or just knock the top speed down to 60 kp/h with above mentioned perk and make it more like a meatgrinder and not cost no energy. Also if they were to knock down the top speed will make the golden eagle buff it to 70 kph just like any other movement part. Despite being way slower they still wouldn’t have to worry about dogs that way because they still get burnt to a crisp.

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Quite possible, I personally didn’t notice much of a change other then when starting from a dead stop. I didn’t have to change anything on any of mine. I’m aware there are a number of rare and special wheels that I haven’t used in a while too which is why I’m asking about types.

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I can’t go into super specific detail because I am not that smart, but in general wheels feel less controllable compared to before. Any time I try to use wheels I slide around, overturn, ram into walls, can’t properly brake and turn with the handbreak and stuff all the time, compared to before where it felt like you could just steer and control your own build much more better and clearly. Playing on wheels in the current day wheels like playing around with bad ping. Instead of controlling my car precisely, I am just fighting against it while attempting to get it to move where and how I want it to move. No matter how i switch around where st wheels and non-st wheels are, where the weight is on my car, it just does not work well enough, it’s a constant feeling of frustration and the best performance you seem to get out of a wheeled build is “Good enough” rather than “Perfect” which back before supercharged only meant 6 wheels, st’s at the back and front and non-st’s in the middle and you were good to go on almost any build.

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It’s ok I get the gist of what your saying.

Which wheels are you using though?