Lets talk

[nucocku4]

@Poony4u

But if drones were truly “too easy”, why do we rarely see them in any of the competitive modes?

they are easy,but their stats are bad

@Poony4u

Everyone here loves to argue that their favourite weapon requires more skill than other people’s favourite weapon.

i think naguals and assemblers takes much more skill than a regular weapon yet theyre like worst weapons in the game statwise

[Jimmykuk]

This is basically my exact point, Drones you either drop and run away or ram/pin you’re target. Why should they be as effective as a weapon you have to aim with?

Assemblers are actually a really good example, charge shot while taking aim, leading your shot and being exposed to enemy fire, hoping you can get your shot off in that sweet spot to do decent damage and not go over or your weapon is red hot taking more damage if it gets hit.

[Poony4u]

@Jimmykuk

To your second point, no absolutely not. Just because something is more “meta” it doesn’t mean it requires less skill. A cannon shot that misses does no damage.

I guess it depends on how we define skill. Crossout isn’t a generic FPS, so I’m not sure that aiming is the only skill metric we should be using. By that measure, Snowfalls are more high skill than Scorpions, as they’re a lot harder to aim.

I would argue that much of the “skill” in Crossout has as much to do with building and driving techniques as it does with aiming, and of course strategy is an even bigger factor.

When I play drones, it’s a bit more relaxing to not have to think about aiming, but driving, building, and strategy become a lot more important.

It’s quite easy to score less than 40 points with drones, if you don’t have the relevant skills. When I play drones (which isn’t often), I still have to focus a lot to perform decently. You can’t just drop them wherever and go hide.

With most drones, they follow your build, so you need to somehow stay within close range of the enemy, and not get killed. Easier said than done! And if you don’t drop them in the right place and at the right time, you’ll accomplish nothing.

I’m not convinced that takes less skill than sitting at the edge of the map with a scope, moving your reticle overtop of a victim.

[Poony4u]

Expanding on my last post:

For me, I define the skill level of a weapon and/or build by how much effort I need to put in to score consistently in the top three of my team. The easiest way for me to achieve that is with DPS weapons like miniguns and ACs.
To score decently consistently with drones, I really have to work at it on several different levels. Even cannons don’t require me to get as sweaty as I do with drones.

I remember my guitar player friends used to scoff at electronic music, because it didn’t require the same physical skill as playing a “real” instrument. But as someone who has done both, I am confident saying that there are lots of great guitar players who simply don’t have the skills and knowledge required to make good electronic music. Not all skills are just about reflexes and muscle control.

[DocSavage]

I like drones because they add function to my art builds and keep things simple. I also appreciate that they are somewhat difficult to win with. I do remember drones being a curse, and I never want to see that again…Sidekicks seem to have brain damage though.

I’ve yet to figure out how to make those work, and I’ve seen zero improvement in their performance since the update. I suppose I’m expected to use them with that garbage drone cab with the bloated legendary power-score, because their primary issue is that they just wander around aimlessly shooting at nothing…or they are busy checking my undercarriage for contraband. IDK. I’m still working on finding their niche, if they have one.

Most of my issues probably revolve around the matchmaker, and it’s problems revolve around low player population, and that problem probably comes from how the developers pull the rug out from under their clients every other month with the nerf-cycle merry-go-round they do. Unless you’re a whale with a full inventory, it’s a carrot chase, and not the game people came here to play…unless you’re sadistic.

If they could solve the player retention issues which would improve the matchmaker’s functionality and fairness of the resulting matches in PVP, I could probably work with the system that’s in place just fine with very little adjustment to balance. I’d just like better consistency, so I know what system that actually is…and then I can paint it fast, pink, and horny, and go on with the show.

[gangsterism]

@Jalbi76

I would say be happy with what they offer. Don’t play what you don’t like. You can’t expect them to develop everything what each induvidual player want.

or they could develop based on what everyone wants collectively, but after all im not a real life NPC so maybe i dont see it from the right perspective.

[Babuskae]

@Jimmykuk

This is basically my exact point, Drones you either drop and run away or ram/pin you’re targe

Dropping drones and running away, is just waste.
I personally can’t afford to do that, i have no extra ammo.
Not always that’s possible, you can pin down a build if the other build it’s lighter than yours, but there’s always a heavier build than you.
I’ve been catching by surprise some players, cause my build is heavier than it seems, but even that works until a certain point, i can’t rely on that alone, if i do, things will go wrong a lot of times.
I usually am amongst the chaos, tanking damage the best i can, the most i can, doing that my drones have better chances to survive, but that’s not full proof either

[Poony4u]

@DocSavage

and that problem probably comes from how the developers pull the rug out from under their clients every other month with the nerf-cycle merry-go-round they do.

I think that’s a possible explanation for what’s going on at low PS, but I have another theory based on what I see in the profiles of some of the people who’ve joined my clan.
The devs give out a lot of free packs now, which combined with a BP allows new players to play around 9kPS relatively quickly. And since that range is busier, they tend to get there and then stop playing low PS.
It is true that many of them abandon the game completely after getting to that point, but it seems to me that many new players last long enough to get out of low PS, and there does still seem to be a steady flow of new players coming into the game.

There are probably lots of reasons why people don’t stick around long term. Before Crossout, I don’t think I ever played a game longer than a year, and generally much shorter periods before moving on. Most games aren’t going to resonate enough with most players to keep them around long term.

[Poony4u]

@gangsterism

develop based on what everyone wants collectively

How do they do that?
Why do you think there is a single thing that everyone wants collectively?
Just look at the arguments on the forum: there is no widespread agreement about what the game needs. We are all coming at it from different angles.

[Babuskae]

@nucocku4

i think naguals and assemblers takes much more skill than a regular weapon yet theyre like worst weapons in the game statwise

I think we are mixing things.
who have the bigger dick?

I don’t know, but what i can tell you, drones require skill and careful thinking and brute force, they have limitations as any other weapon, more limitations than any other weapon
They are far from being without skill, i can guarantee.
If you pick up a drone build and play it like you think drones are meant to be played, you won’t go far.
Now, if you pick a drone build, and try to make it work despite their limitations, their corks ( no two drones are the same ) the best you can
How to you call that?

[DocSavage]

Well then, once I get through this battle pass, I’ll have to go crush some noobs at 9K

Their numbers on Steam did improve a little last night, and I did have a pretty fine time, so I don’t think the numbers need to improve a lot for this game to work better, but it’s scraping bottom often, and I can sure feel the effects when it does.

Frankly, nothing about 9K inspires me. I think it’s the game balance disaster everybody says it is, and the embodiment of everything that sucks about this game. I’d rather avoid it and wish this game didn’t make everything so complicated with the perks, co-drivers, modules, and this awful new energy point puzzle. I get tired of it fast.

I’d like a simple game with diverse aesthetics, and I get that at low PS, and loose it at high PS. It’s not at all an attractive prospect to me, and I’d hoped to avoid it. I simply don’t need the complexity, and I expect to get pwnd endlessly by people with more better fancy crap than I. I’m not going to be able to pretend to enjoy that.

[Poony4u]

@DocSavage

I’d like a simple game with diverse aesthetics, and I get that at low PS, and loose it at high PS.

I relate to that. I also find the aesthetics of low PS more appealing, but I am too impatient for the queue times, and I prefer matches with as few bots as possible.

You are right that at 9kPS, the interplay of perks is a lot more important, and that can limit builds. But at the same time, you can treat that stuff like how you would think about suping up a real car: “how can I modify this engine to be faster? What tires will give me the best performance”.

And while you see more ugly builds the higher you go, at 9kPS you can still play a car-that-looks-like-a-car and succeed, if you build smart and play well. That is much harder if you go higher than 9kPS.

[Zarrurer]

@nucocku4

???like almost every weapon in the game because you need to have enemy in your sightline and meanwhile enemy have you in their sightline (only exception artllery and rocket(they have their own issues))

what i mean by this is if you drop them they can easily be taken out by enemies and have limited durability, if they all get destroyed at once you have no way to defend yourself while you wait for them to recharge.

@nucocku4

like every weapon in the game(except melee)

yes but to a lesser extent then normal guns. mgs get ammo and alot of it, drones can be destroyed and wasted, they also are limited to how many genesis you have on your car which are also explosive. they also have a long reload time so your a sitting duck until they are ready again.

@nucocku4

ok,melee weapons needs to be close,mgs needs to be not to close to survive and not to far to enemy because of damage falloff,"sniper"weapons needs to be far away from enemy for survivability.

yeah? whats your point?

@nucocku4

look at these guys,they are bad for their rarity

alot of these weapons have their strengths and weaknesses but i find the naguals are not weak at all. if you fuse them and use them on the manitou they were good. sure you had to be accurate but once you got that down youll be picking off weapons across the map.
also rocket launchers tend to be not good unless up close and alot of those other guns take a bit of skill to use. nail guns are good if you know how to use them properly, emilys can be good cause they are small and compact. astraeus was nerfed into the ground so no surprise there.

@nucocku4

and on drones i need to be not to close to enemy(so they wouldnt kill me) and not to far(so drones dont lose the target) while hiding behind the wall/teammate.cool,very skillful indeed

this is a not so good way of playing. you should be supporting your team not playing hide and seek. you can ram into opponents and pin them and have your drones help pick them apart. now we have the mode with unlimited respawns and points so theres no excuses now. well i suppose the helis still suck for this mode but still.

@mupppet42069

It was always p2w but with the battlepasses it became p2play, many of you didnt notice because you think 10 bucks is cheap. Its no money worth caring about sure but its in no way worth it. Its like paying to be put in a hamster wheel only to go round and round forever.

this is what i was trying to tell people but they plug their ears and dont bother listening

@Jalbi76

I would say be happy with what they offer. Don’t play what you don’t like. You can’t expect them to develop everything what each induvidual player want. Do you know any other game where devs put whatever the fuck you want into the game? If yes, play that. The balance cycle changes the game anyway each couple of month…

its people like you and ways of thinking like this that ruin videogames and the videogame industry itself. it also ruins any enjoyment of a game as well. the devs have done nothing but focus on p2p aspects of the game, battlepasses, mini battlepasses, etc and your defending this? where the hell are your priorities? do you enjoy licking the boots of the people who do nothing but inject monitization into the game?
crossout can be a fun game, hell it can even be an amazing game, but look at whats been done over the past few years. adventure mode got added and abandoned, co-drivers got an update only to be abandoned, new blueprints got added only to be temporary to later re-sell to you in a god damn mini battlepass, they were talking about a raid featuring helis so where is it?
a GOOD videogame developer / company LISTENS TO ITS PLAYERBASE while bad companies only do whats profitable for them. devs dont need to put literally everything a player asks for into the game, but knowing the devs are listening and care about the state of the game and the players is what sets good developers apart from the bad ones.

@Babuskae

You must be kidding, right?

Not every weapon has less durability than an exposed old gasgen e.g.
Not every weapon can be suppressed by a single chord MG.

Thank God hitscan was removed from the game, since they did it, not only improved the drone experience but as everyone else’s experience.

On top of all that you have the cooldown, facing overheating mechanics you are always in a disadvantage.
You have much much less control over the cooldown time, than the other guy.
Even against reload mechanics you rely heavily in the other guy experience.
And in top of that, if everything goes well you end up being degunned every 20 seconds for 30 seconds. If doesn’t go well you end up degunned almost immediately for 30 seconds
Carrying extra ammo or not is up to each one.
But more important than that it’s the type of drone you are running there isn’t two drones with the same gameplay, so if you are carrying one type there’s plenty of situations that you hope you had the other one for that situation, so for that not to happen you must adapt, constrain yourself …and that is not always easy.

Playing drones is harder than you might think.
Give it a try

man i couldnt have said it better myself. fricken poetry right there claps

@Jimmykuk

If you don’t understand that there’s a massive skill difference between sniping with cannons and dumping off drones then running away there’s no point even trying to argue.

dude, i am a cannon veteran, i played mammoths / mastodons and even typhoons in clan wars. sniping with a cannon is EASY so long as you know your trajectory and bullet speed youll do fine. drones on the other hand are not just a dump and run. they are limited by your radar and also have limited range. wheel drones have wonky driving and often times are bad in certain environments / maps. i ran fuze drones in the past, i know what im talking about. flying drones are limited to flying over your car (minus annihilators) and turrets are stationary and cannot move. turrets might require a bit more of a hit and run strategy but the drones they have are weaker so its obvious they cant stand and fight.

@Babuskae

If the other guy is good, he will shoot your drones easily, making you redundant, you can’t hide, you must disrupt the other guy.
You can but you shouldn’t hide or run away, cause if you running the co-driver, you must be within 35 meters from your drones to be able to take advantage of your perk.
If you are not trying to do that the drones will be even weaker.
And ultimately you are just doing nothing there but be a number

exactly this.

@Poony4u

But if drones were truly “too easy”, why do we rarely see them in any of the competitive modes?

he clearly wasnt around when annihilators and grenadiers were a problem otherwise he wouldnt be saying that. if he was then hes just delusional

@Jimmykuk

A cannon shot that misses does no damage.

a drones that gets deleted instantly as it comes out ALSO does no damage. a droner losing all his drones and waiting for a recharge ALSO does no damage.
your arguement can easily be countered you know.

@nucocku4

i think naguals and assemblers takes much more skill than a regular weapon yet theyre like worst weapons in the game statwise

i think it might be because im used to naguals / cannons in general but they are an excellent sniping weapon and can take weapons clean off. hell 2 shots from a triple nagual and i can take a cyclone clean off someone.

@Jimmykuk

This is basically my exact point, Drones you either drop and run away or ram/pin you’re target. Why should they be as effective as a weapon you have to aim with?

jesus christ its like talkin to a brick wall with you isnt it?

@DocSavage

I do remember drones being a curse, and I never want to see that again…

only grenadiers and annihilators, id rather not see that train wreck again either…

[Jalbi76]

There are not so much “noobs” at 9K anymore. Since BFU a lot of high PS players visit that range frequently.

[DocSavage]

I’m sure it’s a disaster.

[Jimmykuk]

See what happens when you keep trying to push drones instead of having a discussion about every other problem in the game, which may have been the original intention, but you focus on the wrong thing and here we are. This thread is now a total mess! Bravo.

[Zarrurer]

@Jimmykuk

See what happens when you keep trying to push drones instead of having a discussion about every other problem in the game, which may have been the original intention, but you focus on the wrong thing and here we are.

you are more then welcome to discuss any other topic here so dont pin this on me. im not the one who hates drones here with a burning passion apparently. you also mentioned drones several times despite me defending them and just wanting them to be more usable in all modes.

@Jimmykuk

This thread is now a total mess! Bravo.

then leave.

[Jimmykuk]

@Zarrurer

you are more then welcome to discuss any other topic here so dont pin this on me. im not the one who hates drones here with a burning passion apparently. you also mentioned drones several times despite me defending them and just wanting them to be more usable in all modes.

Read my original reply, quite a few other comments which you didn’t even respond to, so yea, this is 100% on you because rather than just accept someone else’s opinion about 1 thing and either have a logical discussion or simply move on you went full ham. GROW UP!

[Zarrurer]

@Jimmykuk

rather than just accept someone else’s opinion about 1 thing

we can agree to disagree.

@Jimmykuk

either have a logical discussion or simply move on

ok then lets have one? im willing to talk through stuff.

[Allis_Chalmers]

So elegantly said Bravo!

1. Battle & mini passes. Too much so often rinse & repeat. The same old items like the unwanted left overs from last nights supper.
   2.lack of modes & abandoned modes Agree 100% Adventure should be allowing helicopter blades what is to gain by not allowing them? Will someone Dev’s pride get hurt if they did allow them? Along with the casings and coupons being removed. When they are technically still needed to craft with? Another micro transaction. Slip it in so the clients are oblivious to the scam. This is what my belief is . Sadly some of the mini events that seldom reappear should be implemented into the game for possibly raids or new modes.
2. Clan wars & uranium battle : Totally useless if your not a seal clubber. Relics ? Who cares? Simply just an expensive P.O.S.
   4 Leviathan’s . Yawn Its a niche player base.
   5 Casings & coupons . I feel they were intentionally removed from Adventure mode as they are still needed for crafting solely for Micro transaction in the market place. nothing but a D*** move IMO.
3. Bots. LMBO Yeah their balance has been fortified greatly. many sporting 3 relics which have been obviously buffed to un worldly specs along with an extreme power score to knock out.
   Their ability to surgically hit you from across the map and TKO a player is unacceptable. Drones are now sadly totally useless as they will zero in& take them out quickly.
4. Hit scan . Its a BS deal why did they have to fubar something that worked fine?
5. Seal clubbing . The scourge of pretty much every Video game with PVP.
6. Promise’s not kept. The Devs are too busy dinking around with 4 battle passes and extra mini events for the cash grab to worry about they’re own dignity IMO. Then the publishers of XO “Gaijin” may be pushing the concept for more revenue? not sure but its getting old.
   10 Raids. What the h*** did they do to the raids? Mercy they are crap now.
   Overall perspective, The game has turned a horrible direction. I wondered years ago being once a War Thunder player Another Gaijin production and how they changed it into a cash grab F2P game Using F2P very loosely. Often wondering when the proverbial would hit the fan for Crossout . That it has. Gaijin typical business tactic IMO. Bait the hole then go in for the catch after the clients have been made docile & inept . Feeding it to us very slowly .
   Boiling Frog Metaphor