this is where we are different and need to make it clear to players ( pc and console are totally different)
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Did this whole whale conversation get started by me saying the devs are probably careful not to piss off whales? 
Grinding for relics?
Every few weeks?
Honestly, I don’t think you could do that on PC even if you played 24/7. I wonder how much this disparity between PCs and consoles has kept us from getting cross-platform play.
I’d love to see the actual math on the difference between them.
I think I roughly estimated once that if I played rather heavily (for me), I could grind for one relic every 6 months.
Other folks could probably get there faster… I only play 2
For real. I sold my 2 that were unfused. I never play them. made 20k on each. Course they sat in my inventory a year and half so interest… i probably lost money.
I need Typhoons, but don’t want to pay so much lol.
Agreed. You might get 5 coin per 100 scrap if you are extremely lucky during an event on PC… Xbox everyday price is above 14 coin per 100.
Electronics on PC are 60 per 100, on Xbox 160…
The market on PC doesn’t work the same either, you can’t buy low/sell high nearly as easily.
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I am so happy they took back 33% of the speed buff they randomly gave to hovers 8 months ago, while also giving them half a dozen buffs as compensations lol. Reduced spread on the move, improved frame armor, nearly twice the effective tonnage… People already planning up their Icarus VII Typhoon hovers as we’re speaking.
Also what Firebug buff? The 100% penetration thing? It… already has 100% penetration.
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The ratios moved a bit over the years, but initially it was 40% bullet 60% blast for turret cannons, and the opposite for fixed ones.
Frames rn stop the fire from hittjng the parts behind them. I use an 8x4 heavy frame on the back of all my wheel builds for that purpose. Now theyll hit the frame and the part behind it if it can reach
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I wonder if the change to frames will buff Scorp deframing again. I mean the damage won’t pass through the frame anymore, the frame will take most of the damage. The bigger the frame piece the more damage it will take from a Scorp.
Did anyone try de-framing on the test server with Scorps?
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I don’t have the available bandwidth in my brain to figure this stuff out before it’s released on even smaller updates.
This one is so huge, I’m baffled…
I’ll just lose relentlessly for a few days until I figure out how to build in XO again… meaning I’m gonna lose until you guys figure it out & post it here. One thing I’ll say about the motley bunch we have on the server is that compared to the other social media outlets for the game, you guys think this stuff through better than most. I trust your opinions far more than the dumpster fire Reddit hoard.
As for frames… the scorching memory of the old scorp deframing days have hung with me so much that almost every build has every movement part mounted to multiple frame pieces if I can manage it. Nothing like being nuggeted at first shot. 
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going to see a scorp on basic tires with no armor at 4k…
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I tried little a triple Avenger build… popped more than one generator & ammo pack. A couple on spaced armor hovers.
There’s gonna be a learning curve for sure.
I’m going to have to toy with that dual fat man hover I have & see how it does. It’s a quasi-spaced armor META-ish build. I’ll probably have my Thor & ammo boxes popped within seconds of the match opening. 
Weapons Retchers needs stay at durability which have or lower to 180 and needs nerf their damage bonus for UI bots they killing players on 1-2 shots. Retchers bots are like doom slayers 
The best option will be if stats will be split separately for PVE and PVP. There will better make balance because when you change some for better way in PVP you destroy stats for good gameplay PVE.
Hate to say it, but my buddy, Homeroadie (one of the best builders in all of XO, as ive said before) and I already figured out the most effective way to armor things. Bumper in front of an expanded ammo pack, empty pocket, bumper in front of expanded ammo pack. It consumes the least amount of mass and denies Scorpion, Mastodon and Typhoon double shots.
We are officially as close to pay to win as ever in this game, as now you have to buy the most efficient armor or be at a competitive disadvantage.
Furthermore, to prevent scorps from aiming low or high to circumvent your explosive armor, you can put an ammo box on top of another ammo box. But only if it is fused for durability or resistance will it survive the explosion from the other expanded ammo pack going off. Meaning if you want tippy top anti-scorp armor, not only do you have to buy it, you can triple the cost as you need to fuse it as well.
Any other questions? I deduced new the scorp damage formula and my buddy found the most effective armor so far. I could answer more questions, but those are the only two i have been asking myself so far.
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That’s the kind of META building I’ll simply never participate in.
I’m not saying it doesn’t work. I’m absolutely certain it does.
It just sounds impossibly un-fun.
Im a slave to the meta. Kinda kidding, kinda not. Im gonna do whatever it takes to have the most effective build for what that build is, but i run what i want to run, weapons and movement part-wise. When i decide what i want to run, then its the minmaxing flavor of the latest patch going on that rig.
If you want to make the best armor for spaced armor without cheesing it using modules, the best you can do right now is anything with 300 durability and then a pocket. Basically put up a vertical Train Plow/Gessan/Snow Plow/Freight Train Plow, pocket of empty space, and then another layer of those bumpers. You can use the shoot through parts to reduce the intial bullet damage and use slightly less durable parts behind it such as the Fuselage/Plow(the baby 6x2 plow no one uses anymore). The new shoothrough parts in the pass should be EXCELLENT for this as they have near 1:1 durability-weight ratio, add durability to the cabin, and only absorb 50% of the bullet damage, meaning theyll reduce that incoming Typhoon shot’s bullet damage down to half, allowing the slightly weaker bumpers to take both Typhoon shells without letting them go further into the build. The best part is they are large 6x2x2 and you get 4 of them, making them new meta.
But again, while people will use a vertical snow plow weighing almost 900 kgs, i will use a 200kg bumper and a 288kg ammo box and get the same results for 400+ kgs less. So will the tryhards when they figure it out (and by figure out, i mean get wrecked by it in CWs, then try to build it themselves, give up and wait for the exhibition to hand them an optimal one.)
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seen a guy with the new spider legs.
LOL they are as responsive as hovers used to be. He was zipping around side stepping rockets, etc.
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Pretty coincidental all the old movement parts were nerfed to be so sluggish now, right?
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I was using them for a while, but once I started paying closer attention to the weight/durability ratio, I stopped. Unless you NEED the weight… why?
I imagine using the ammo-box trick also helps out a lot on hovers to keep you level longer into the match. Nothing like leaning this way or that because half your armor is missing from one side.
Omniwheels and wheels and bigrams are all handling much better since this update. What nerfs are you referring to?
Augers got their mass nerfed, but overall seem to handle better since the hill bug was fixed.
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