The Caucasus firing angle nerf did nothing to the Caucasus heli meta

Discussion
1

Let’s face it: The Caucasus firing angle nerf it received earlier does not stop players from using 2 below 7k PS, and it outperforms a set of 3 fused almost god-fused side-mount MG13s. They will just circle you up close while the Caucasus do its job.

And no, further nerfing its rotation speed does help because SURPRISE! Helicopters use camera steering, which means even the fixed guns can shoot wherever you look!

If anything, the only thing Caucasus firing angle nerf ever achieved now, is to shut down its ability as a potential ground-to-air weapon.

We should have a better option to deal with Caucasus heli meta. This is my approach:

  • Reduce Caucasus’s durability by 15%, from its current 284pts to 256pts. If you want to face-tank with MGs, pick up 3 or 4 M-29s already.
  • Reduce Caucasus’s time to overheat by 10%, and reduce the cooling speed by 10%.
  • Reduce the base damage of Caucasus, and then give it a perk that increases the damage in proportion to the amount of Caucasus used on a build. This will let a set of 3 Caucasuses deal the same damage, but discourage the uses of 2 Caucasus.
  • Finally, revert the firing angle nerf, and give it a passive perk that increases its gun elevation even more for ground vehicles (as much as its physical model allows).

The firing angle nerf of Caucasus once again proved Targem don’t play their game, especially the heli mode they’re so eagerly shoving into the face of the dwindling player base.

2 Likes
2

I haven’t personally encountered any of this Caucasus helicopters, but if I were playing at that PS range and was struggling to counter them, I would run some ACs and pummel them from outside their range.
Have you tried that? There’s a lot of options that have much longer range and enough DPS to be effective.

3

All I know is the Caucasus is allowed in order to make us buy the BP which conveniently includes an upgraded Yeti - it helps when fighting Caucasus helicopters. Just like the presence of homing missiles was intended ot make us buy the previous BP with an upgraded Flock. The Flock can now only be bought on the Market, is more expensive, hardly anyone can afford it, and that makes this mode even worse.
I wouldn’t mind a simpler version of the Flock that would be free or craftable, maybe spcial tier. So that everyone would have access to it, like with the other two invisibility modules, which counter the Caucasus, but not as well as the Yeti.

4

I’m not sure how to properly build one.
Right now I prefer not to go above 6k PS unless the combo makes sense to me (such as quantum with triple blockchain heli). I simply don’t have the incentive to go anywhere above 5.5k ps on helicopter at all.

My ground build of triple Therm Harpy ranger sits at 7.9k PS. I’m not sure if I’m comfortable going PS this high as Helicopter.

5

Good luck with this, they’re so fast it’s not even funny.

6

I couldn’t care less about choppers.
What i do know is, this crazy same balance for two completely different realities is hurting ground builds, but real hurt

. Caucasus fall off very easily, a bump in the road and you lose lock or target, the next bump will cause for said weapon to fall off ( honestly, first few seconds into the battle and on of them just fall off). And you’ll be losing against everything but drones. So no to a durability nerf.

  • DPS of Caucasus is pitiful, due to short range for that type of weapon ( regardless of type of radar, you are limited to 100 meters), very shallow firing angles, obstructions and now a nerf to overheating and cooldown… Hell, No.
    In raids you will be struggling to break 30 k damage when your allies with weapons a tier below will do 50-70 k without breaking a sweat.

. Reduce a thing that’s already small… great, just great, i’ll be struggling to break 10 k that way. No.

Do you know that kind of missions kill or help kill 10 armoured aircraft?
well, i had to mount a Chord to be able to finish that mission.
My Caucasus didn’t even open up in none of the tries i did before i mounted a chord due to range and/or firing angles, not a single bullet from them.
That’s from 3 EPIC weapons costing 1100 PS each one and they were outperformed by a single Chord

7

Therms would be a decent choice.
And while you could definitely make a helicopter with them that was in a lower PS range, if you stayed in that range your Caucasus problem would probably disappear. I don’t think you’d see many at that PS range.

Why not try your ground therm build in aircraft battles and see what the meta is like in that range? I find ground based AC builds perform relatively well against aircraft. Just pay attention to where you can find good cover to hide.

8

We’re all playing the same game, so yes I am aware that enemies don’t stay still. That’s why I’m suggesting ACs: so that you can throw enough shells their way that some will connect.

9

So many years ago when they originally introduced homing missiles and Caucasus, the long game was to use them to sell BPs that hadn’t even been an aspect of the game?

That is some extremely long term planning on their part!

Or maybe they introduced helicopters, saw what weapons perform well in that mode, and then made sure they introduced some counters? I feel like that might be a better explanation.

10

Make the Caucasus unable to fire if tilted over a certain angle, like the Mandrake, bam, problem fixed, helis either can’t use it or are forced to make themselves easier targets while doing so. It already is underperforming as a normal weapon, so nerfing it even further by more conventional methods would be stupid.

And while we are at it, Caucasus has nothing on the turbo cancer that are Spark helis, make the spark’s perk ineffective against helis, problem fixed.

And reduce the proximity fuse range on the Starfall.

And cut the tonnage given by all rotors by 50% so helis are either forced to be lighter or bloat their PS, actually giving ground vehicles a more fair fighting chance.

11

I couldn’t care less about choppers.

I don’t like flying either, but it’s here to stay now, and as someone who doesn’t have the financial ability to buy levels and skip all the heli tasks, balancing regarding heli is necessary now.

Caucasus fall off very easily, a bump in the road and you lose lock or target, the next bump will cause for said weapon to fall off ( honestly, first few seconds into the battle and on of them just fall off). And you’ll be losing against everything but drones. So no to a durability nerf.

Why does that sound like you’re rushing in and driving in a way so reckless it keeps breaking the lock due to you jumping up and down various ledges?
However, I stated that the firing angle nerf did nothing to nerf the Caucasus heli meta, and by putting up your experience, you’ve indirectly proved that the firing angle nerf is now hurting ground build too.
Unfortunately, the entire point of Caucasus is “they aim themselves for you”. Even with the durability nerf, Caucasus still have 256pts durability, for your reference, the M-29 Defender has only 213 durability per gun, and it only has 20% dmg resistance at max.

regardless of type of radar, you are limited to 100 meters

According to the Number Cruncher “GodFelix” on XO Official Discord, the max lock on range with radar is 125m, and the optimal dps range is 60~65m. The tactic of Caucasus heli is simply goes up close into CQC range and let the auto-aim do all the job for them.
Caucasus is like drones and missiles: they do the aim for you, and IMO they shouldn’t be outperforming players that aim their guns, if not also lead their projectile.

Do you know that kind of missions kill or help kill 10 armoured aircraft?
well, i had to mount a Chord to be able to finish that mission.
My Caucasus didn’t even open up in none of the tries i did before i mounted a chord due to range and/or firing angles, not a single bullet from them.
That’s from 3 EPIC weapons costing 1100 PS each one and they were outperformed by a single Chord

I think the issue is again, the maximum lock-on range of Caucasus. any other MGs can shoot beyond that range.
If you have properly read my note, I have suggested giving them a perk that will make them deal the same damage when used in a set of 3 as without the damage nerf, as well as another perk that will increase their firing angle for ground vehicles so that they can be used as ground AA. In fact, by the first perk I’ve suggested, the player who uses 4 Caucasuses will deal even more damage per gun.

I did put some thoughts when I suggested the changes. I hope this clears up for you a bit.

12

Sounds like people just need to work on not letting enemies get so close. Which is pretty much the same in ground PVP.

We had years of shotgun wedges, and then there was the sparkvester era, and of course melee is suddenly popular again. Close range builds have always been a factor, and the counter isn’t a huge mystery.

13

As someone with a triple MG13 chopper at 5.7k PS with 1.7k cab HP, I have bad news for you: Dual Caucasus helis keep staying at that PS range.

I know this because I have to fly on a daily basis (be it the spiteful daily that forces you to use armoured aircraft or mini-pass aircraft challenge). Caucasus helis appeared within the first week when the rotors were introduced.

until my proposed change has been put in place, they aren’t disappearing anytime soon.

14

You said earlier that your Therm build is 7.9PS. That was the range I was saying you probably won’t see many Caucasus builds.
I don’t think equalizers have enough range to stay far enough away from the Caucasus builds, which is why I am suggesting ACs.

But I notice you mention “needing” to play helicopters to clear your daily challenges. You do not need to. You can play a ground build in patrol and clear all the usual daily challenges. It just needs to be a battle that allows aircraft, and patrol counts.

The only ones that require you to play PVP with aircraft are some of the mini-BP challenges and some of the main BP challenges. Those are not hard to clear. I think you are making this into a much bigger deal than it needs to be. I don’t even think there were any aircraft challenges in this week’s batch of BP challenges.

You definitely do not need to be flying aircraft every day to clear your challenges. Did you buy both the current mini BP and the main BP? If so, just let the aircraft challenges pile up, and do them all at once.

15

I meant, they’ll close the distance, and fast. They will be in range.

16

Why aren’t you retreating as they advance?
They can only catch you if you let them.

Edit: it seems like there might be some
miscommunication happening because of the two ways I’m using the word “range”.
I’m trying to say that you have two options.
You can raise your PS range beyond where Caucasus helicopters are a threat by playing your 7.9kPS therm build. Problem solved, but now you will be facing other weapons that could ruin your day.
Or you can try to stay out of the Caucasus firing range, by using guns that have more range, and by putting them on a fast enough build that you can run away when they get close. Install a cloak if you are struggling to evade them.

Second edit:
If you follow my advice and try ACs, consider using a scope of some kind so that you can hide at the far edges of the map and punish those Caucasus players from very far away while they attack your allies.

17

Cloak

18

[quote=“Ichiro Skywalker, post:11, topic:21299, full:true”]

I couldn’t care less about choppers.

I usually skip heli tasks or tasks against heli , in the very rare occasions i use a heli it’s the provided one, the 2.2 K ps heli , which is great for what it is and i’m not swimming in money either, the last BP i bought was the Guiding star (100% pure “beef” with no BS).

Why does that sound like you’re rushing in and driving in a way so reckless it keeps breaking the lock due to you jumping up and down various ledges?

Far from it. I’m talking about shipyard, founder’s, rock city, and so on, minor slopes or ridges you can’t lock target or you lose the lock,

Well, the devs said the nerf was to control the airborne Caucasus and ground vehicles wouldn’t or shouldn’t notice much but it’s just the opposite apparently in air to air combat there’s still problems with them being OP but on the ground… it’s very frustrating, to say the least.
Try them, go to the exib pick one and try to smash your friend’s builds with them.

Protectors, you mean Protectors, Defenders are ST-M23 ( i went to check), but even so there are differences, Caucasus are huge and each one weights about 743 kg ( most probably why you see two in faster builds, ground builds also. )
Protectors have 825 PS not a whopping1100 PS ( for what they are for what they do they should be specials not epic, it’s a subpar weapon in comparison with others MGs of their tier and the tier below)

125 meters? keep it simple, i’m talking about regular ones, plain ones, it’s 100 meters regardless and that’s it, any other MG does more than that, and they are not as heavy, slow or big.

How about a slight increase in rate of fire with the old firing angles and a bit more survivability or range?
Other option would be leave as they are now but putting them in the Special tier

Regarding Helis,
they could do an air version of the Caucasus with different stats

19

They need to add latency to the caucasus so its aim tracking always lags behind a certain amount of time so it cannot track something like helicopters as well. Nothing else can work in a way that doesnt make the cauc worthless in pvp. I think it should be utterly worthless in pvp, but a lot of ppl have to play autoaim because of ping.

20

But I notice you mention “needing” to play helicopters to clear your daily challenges. You do not need to.

I regret to tell you that currently if the daily tasks are “win 2/3 times in mission with armored aircraft”, it won’t be completed if you queue heli mode with ground vehicle — you have to use the armored aircraft slot. I found out the hard way.