The Real Topic

Discussion
#1

Alright folks. Time for some real topic. You all been wailing and whining about how you have unique utterly accurate vision of rebalancing the game, what new toys you want to see etc.
This all comes to one misconception - that devs are terrible at balancing and if they did everything right, the game would be successful. That is not true. Not entirely.
Lets talk the real problem of the game. It is hugely underrated. Not enough players.
Why is that? 2 Reasons -

  1. Game is too complicated by nature. Even most of those that play it, lack the understanding of base concepts of the game in building or tactics or game mechanics. That’s why it really needs to have that part improved through tutorials and other materials. So much players build bad inefficient crafts and get bullied by metas because of that.
  2. Not enough advertising. Even though there is enough money to make banners and advertisement on many sites and many YT bloggers tried this game, they all mostly failed to understand the game, and therefore tell what players, how and why should play it. The only good one I know is Gromek999 but even he abandoned the game. He made a good impact though, showing of spectacular irregular mechanics of the game. But he got bored at the end and quit.
    Why am I so sure of all this? Open the game website. Click partnership and look how desperate situation is. Also think about all the streams you seen from developers, and check official YT channel. They try to make the media roll, but it makes me feel pity every time. Either it’s developer or YT Blogger, highlighting new season or update, both groups are definitely don’t play regularly or love the game, don’t understand it. Those things when they search through interface trying to get to something, get lost from time to time, all that shallow understanding of the game…
    I might be wrong but,
    Currently there is no signigicant YTuber that would really play the game, and highlight it.(last streams were with ones that don’t play the game seriously, and then it became devs only, and as I mentioned (and many here on forum), doesn’t seem devs play their own game much either) That’s for english speaking audience anyway. On Russian there seem to be some focused on the game and successful YTubers, but there are other issues. As a typical YTubers, they generate videos for the sake of income, which quite reduces quality of stuff they create, but boosts quantity to make it hard to find useful and important stuff(if they even make any).
    The other issue - lack of proper tutorials.(correct this if I am wrong) There is no full tutorial explaining the game in detail. Explaining parts, principles of building, etc. Just a nice long structured video-tutorial that even devs could link to the game. Don’t mind the text ones(if they exist), most people will get to annoyed to get that info through reading without parallel video illustration and why shouldn’t they?

So what can be done?
That place of leading english community YTuber is still seems to be vacant.
(personally me, I don’t want it, I’ve got much more reliable and serious thing going, rather than chasing views and YT monetization). But I’m willing to try to make some YT channel with good full tutorials about the game. Also making videos trying to highlight the game at medium PS and explain better what players and why might like the game, and try to bring more. I won’t start that anytime soon. Got a bunch of work firstly, but also there is some risk. Crossout is developed and managed by Russian company, and with all things going on(war), Russian internet might end up isolated from EU. Wargaming for example already announced they move company from Belarus. I’m not entirely sure in future of Crossout beyond Russia. At least it proved to be problematic so far, not sure they have enough resource to make it separate branch if they need to, or will be able or willing to move Targem.

What also can be done? Some interesting materials you could record from the game and spread. But keep in mind that those should be understandable for someone doesn’t playing Crossout, like things that Gromek did, or Paluluman. Or Black Hat Gaming channel does.
Would be nice if developers added some replay tools, that would help a lot.

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#2

I think your last point about replay tools could help a lot.
A lot of players take real pride in their builds, but it’s often tricky to get good shots of them in action.
A cinematic replay feature would probably generate a lot of user video content that would be great free advertising for the game.

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#3

Targem started the energy weapon and hover shit while ignoring spaced armor and wedges which are this game’s downfall. Nobody can watch the original Closed Beta Test trailer and tell me this game was selling hovers, bigrams, wedges, and massive warehouse sized scrap heaps that can’t fit on an 8vs8 powerplant map.

Lol, a top comment on this trailer is as followed, “Image how disappointing it would be if he opened the door and it revealed a stinking hover.” Every single large content creator has dropped this game, even some of its most dedicated players. Gromek dipped, Treeburgers dipped, Coldfire dipped, the entire war thunder crowd dipped. I know I’m in the minority here, but that’s because the majority has left.

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#4

The game has it’s problems, breaking balance terribly from time to time. I played it almost 4 years. I remember hovers totally dominating, and shotguns wedging… survived and learned stuff, improved builds and tactics. Last year game got much more pleasant and balanced. Hovers are no longer bias, wedges don’t lift, shotguns nerfed. It’s balanced, more or less. At medium and low PS anyways, with occasional metas.
If I like this game, so can some others. That’s what I believe.
About YTubers and others - All I seen is they don’t truly love building crafts, so as soon as some balance breaks and some other stuff they just leave and forget because they didn’t appreciate the game anyway. For them it’s just another MMO pvp so they don’t see why this game is special. So they couldn’t exactly sell to their audience why they are even playing it and what fun is there. Or as Gromek, they might just rush to highest PS, try what they can, get annoyed of reaching that “top” and just give up.
Us being here and in battles definitely shows that game still lives. And things are improving, stuff added, meta fixing…
I’ll try to make something later, tutorials and misc content, if it still will be required and something won’t break too much, for now I’m just thinking this all through.
Really think the game could use nice complete well illustrated and animated tutorials on everything: building, weapon types, tactics etc. Even many of experienced players could use some to fill gaps.

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#5

Hi I can bring you my experience as a streamer and YTber, I have about 9k hours of gameplay … in the game my name is XEWO, some know me because I was streaming CW top 10 Twitch for about 2 years … on YT I brought a lot of content especially the “dark side” of this game explaining in detail what was good and what was not … I think the fact that Gromek left is just a reason for listlessness and since for him it is a job he must bring the content that community prefers … Tree has left both because the game is left to itself and because it has to think about the family … I personally have not had much following just because I did not sponsor the game but I exposed the real situation, but I also have a little left because I see that DEVS do not take into consideration the words of those who know the game better than themselves … I have often anticipated the goals and predicted what would be nerfed … they cannot create a healthy situation where to start playing. inspire us something … they release parts for no reason … “balance changes” the Spitfires have been taking away 10% of damage for years and putting it back … it’s a mockery … I also made guides, albeit Italian, of the mechanisms of this game … Nobody brings quality content anymore because the game no longer has quality

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#6

First of all. Thank you for your reply. Its important to get to know the situation better, because different people and sources blame developers for things, but they all vary for what exactly, meaning that situation is at least complicated. And that is not surprise with how unique the game is.
I witnessed similar situation with Bethesda and I don’t really agree with that. The company made one of best games ever created - Skyrim, it’s TeS predecessors are also well respected by oldschools. And so is Fallout series. Fallout 3 was awesome for it’s time. Fallout 4 definitely is a good game, and I played Fallout 76 recently, and found it also a worthy addition to all the previous legends. And there comes this wave of “revelations” that turns out, Bethesda is a sh*tty game developer and can’t make games… WTF? I know there is some crisis in company and for whatever reasons it stopped working on two most legendary game series. As did lots of gamedev companies. But I decided for myself - I will always respect and appreciate the company for what it already done and accomplished.
And same goes here. People blame devs for lot of reasons. Most left the game, but as you said, most of them just got bored of the game and way I see it - didn’t truly loved it. Became unhappy with it because they couldn’t build successful business upon it, needed way out, explaining it by blaming devs.
I know balancing in game isn’t really fair. And I understand it probably never would be perfect. Not with game like this. But through 4 years I played… I only was mad once when parsers were bias. I understand the devs on this also though… They made mistake… But they can’t just sell people a bias and nerf it the very next day. They also sell weapons in packs that are just barely playable: Yongwang, Yokai, Adapters… Especially when they firstly introduced. So at least I know they are not making bias madness to get money but rather because of inability to balance things. But so far they made a string of right moves and managed to get things decent at least at low and mid PS where I played. And the game been alright enough for me to play, and bunch of other guys.
Game like XO although offering abundance of diversity weapons in battles probably can never go widely popular because not so much players like building crafts and playing with parts. But still, somehow I managed to get through with good impression of the game, respecting and appreciating what it has to offer rather than complaining and disappointing from what it lacks. Idk, perhaps I’ll put that energy into something and will add some to the game, not for the sake of profits, I got another thing going for that, but just to fill that gap of proper tutorials explaining things, because I see tons of players that still lack common sense and understanding here and there. Perhaps even make some good advert explaining what people could like the game and bringing more. Might take a bunch of editing and animating with well polished text to make decent quality tutorials. Idk, just wanted to make people look some other way and see things I can see them, that it is still a decent playable game about building and fighting with variety of cool weapons.

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#7

I agree with what you say but the Devs are not inclined to a meeting to discuss some things about the game … my community has always asked me and supported me in the possibility of bringing “healthy” material, balance in this game and I had it … I’m not a player who wants a weapon in meta, I love mastodons and have had them since release, but I don’t despise any component in the game.
Unfortunately fision are a sore part and very P2W, no normal player can fuse relics unless you play CW or spend money (thousands of euros), fusion are something I don’t approve of because they change weapons too much.
The Devs, rightly pull water to their mill, but greed has made you lose a disproportionate amount of player.
They also listen more to the Russian community who in spite of myself are inclined to STOMP NOOB and META weapons … if they had given me the opportunity to take a look at my advice it would have been a better game based on skills, not on who has the larger wallet.
You see hundreds of players who have no vision of the game because they get bored of Farming resources, it takes months to make 2 legendary ones and therefore they buy packages and coins to directly buy the favorite weapon but already at 5k (on PC) you find players with thousands of hours of gameplay which obviously make STOMP NOOBS.
By now I have lost hope, I continue to make some videos on YT even if I do not receive a penny.
I’ve always done it with a passion for my community and they never stopped loving this game for its unique and rare style.

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#8

Of couse not. Why would they? It’s not how that works. Even on a bigger project like War Thunder, 100 000+ sub bloggers only voice their idea publicly and if they are big enough fish for devs to notice, they might consider that idea.

Depends what PS you are talking. It’s only get too much if one climbs too high too quickly.

They fight each other. Sometimes you just change PS to escape some meta, like heavy melee meta now on 5k makes a lot of players move to 6k+ Or double judge hover meta forced a lot of player to go 4k PS and lower.

That is a part of every game. If tools allow no skill domination - thats a crappy game.(which happens in XO at different PS from time to time) But I know that from low to medium PS all you need to play on equal with everyone - is some low rarity weapons, smart build, a bit of skill and tactic. The only unreachable things there are prestige parts - but they don’t matter all that much. Other than that, you just farm things and move up the PS when you are ready… or not. Why not just play mid PS? It is still fun.

Why need relics? Only to fight CW. Why would you need to fight in CW if that is such a p2win crap. Why not forget it exists? Somehow a lot at this point just decide to abandon game. I think by this point they as well just finished the game. Everything has the end. And if they don’t enjoy some mid PS or typical battles, they don’t like the game at all imo. They just need this road they follow and progress.
I also rushed to high tiers few games to find as soon as I reached that end, I lost interest to the game. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t fun game. Besides, there is always some things to doodle around… idk. Maybe it’s just me not reaching that destination yet. Idk.
For now I just see a fun playable game at low to mid PS.

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#9

I have always published my ideas on the old forum but the answers were only gratuitous and derogatory offenses from users who did not even know the game.
But for the restyling of the forum I spoke directly to 2 Devs in the discord channel … why shouldn’t they listen to a free balancing idea? Players considered to be the best in the world know the mechanics of this game much more than the normal user.
(like in any game)

You pay anyway, it is the mechanism that is wrong.

Melee and hover will always be in Meta that PS, it’s the community that wants this.
But then they complain on the forum.
Strange but true.

Sure you enjoy it, but as I have already tested over and over 20 weapons, 4 make the game easier and consequently raise the morale of the player himself.
But this is also rumored since 2017.

The medium-low PS is the most fun, personally I prefer all PS below 12k, cause mini hover scorp … for this kind of build I purely hate because those PS are too broken, I who have not used scorp for years now, especially after the buff, I do 4-6 kills per game … balanced? I do not think so.
This is just one example of what makes a game die.
If you are curious in my YT I have a lot of low PS videos where of course I use all my knowledge to create OP builds.
P.S. fusing the vectors for damage (5% damage) seems little but it is a lot.
To create a balanced game you cannot make a weapon different from the same one just because you have melted it … the base-skill you cancel it

When they put the Hadron cab, in the DEVS stream they immediately understood the ridiculous thing they had created, especially with the scorps … They make changes but they don’t even try them.

#10

I don’t think this would help at all and you are wrong here. Even if a game is bad, buggy, or otherwise unpolished like escape from tarkov, it is going to have a lot of community creators who serve this purpose because the game is worthy of that. XO is not. The gameplay is boring to watch, its been p2w with all these battlepass items, and its got an identity crisis with all these hovers and energy weapons. Movement parts are all very boring now too with no effort made to balance them other than speed and unfair amounts of grip, because of hovers and dogs.

#11

WoT and War Thunder are much more boring to watch, yet they have their share of players. They also have huge problems with balance.

I don’t agree. Besides, what f2p MMO isn’t?

That’s where you are very wrong. games like EFT and WT or WoT are popular because people immediately understand what it is about - shoot guns, fight with tanks. Crossout is… building your vehicles and fighting? Is that even a thing? Is that some kind off robocraft or minecraft with cars? - that’s how people see it.
People just don’t get it why they need it, and most just don’t.
The beauty of crossout is building your vehicle trying to make it both nice and meta, the one you can be proud of. Most are just incapable of that. Partially because they don’t know the principles of building and don’t always stay long enough to learn, and unlocking parts also takes forever or cash.
They just try to build something meta-ish and many don’t even succeed at that having it neither meta, nor nice… and then comes imbalance, on top of all that.
In a lot of sense, crossout is a mirror - a lot of players just come to the game, try building, fail, follow meta strains like cattle, grind, fail at making awesome builds and playing them right, or rush to the top and get pwned, get disappointed and blame the game for their own failures. The devs gave players all the tools to play the game and have fun but most people are like plague they want GRIND GRIND GRIND KILL KILL STOMP NOOBS! FASTER! MORE RESOURCE! MORE MONEY! GET TO THE TOP QUICK! MUST HAVE EVERYTHING! in all that madness they are not even playing the game, they just grind to the top and f*ck off.
And I don’t think that nastiness can be cured at all. It just comes from players and devs are trying reduce that by nerfs and such as best as they can.
Still, so far game exists. moves, some players play and enjoy it, and I only mean that all can be somewhat improved from the point it is now, which isn’t all that disastrous as whiners claim.
And another thing is it’s tactical abundance - I don’t know any other games that would combine so many diverse and unique weapons in battles. It’s like Overwatch, but more technical and scientifically based. Many players could play the game just for that. If they 1.knew it existed and tried it 2. could build something decent and use it right. 3. The game would have at least some form of balance at low and mid PS, which it arguably has most times.

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#12

To be honest, I’m glad that most of the old Crossout youtubers are gone. They would always play in a group with three wedgetables or other meta trash that complimented whatever the youtuber was running himself and they pubstomped the randoms on the other team. Virtually all youtubers used to do that a lot back in the day, and it sucked.

I really liked the content CRD Gaming used to put up, with nice builds and usually solid gameplay, but then he found out he could get a thousand times more views by making clickbait videos for coomers and that was the end of Crossout for him as far as I know.

IIRC there is actually a replay tool already in the game, but it puts some strain on the servers, so the access to it is restricted. I think they planned to give the ability to use it to some popular youtubers, but I’m not sure if they’ve done it at all.

#13

That being said, I don’t think Crossout has a problem reaching out to new players at all. It’s retaining them that has always been the main issue. At this point I’m convinced it’s a regular part of their business model: Lure new playes in counting on a certain percentage of them buying a pack or two and then realizing how slow it is to get anywhere near the endgame and leaving. I’ve said this before and I still stand by it, so let me just copypaste:

I’m a veteran who has played since CBT, so throughout the years, I had time to slowly accumulate most of the items I wanted and progressively as they came out with no huge steps it would take now to acquire what I have. I can’t imagine recommending this game to anyone to start playing, as the grind is too harsh for most people. They should massively shorten the time to get to the “epic to legendary” plateau of player progression - let players get all those items much faster and perhaps provide a set of challenges where players can complete various task to get packages of untradeable equipment with progression in rarity until they get a decent amount of epic and lower items to fill their inventory. I don’t care what it does to the market or my inventory value, I’d rather play a game with an active playerbase than prance about how many coins I have to the other ten players still playing the game. And I don’t care how much time I had to spend getting all those items way back then either.

And if they do that, the Season Pass system will still provide enough FOMO to keep a lot of the players still playing.

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#14

You are pretty much are exactly what I was talking about.

Grind in crossout is amazingly soft that’s what I’ll tell you. You guaranteed to recieve 60% reward for lost battles, and you don’t spend anything at all on repairs. Can even just grind entirely in PVE. Your share only varies like 15% depending on performance… No game has grind that soft. I played War Thunder and WoT - you literally could go negative balance playing high tiers and was forced to go farm somewhere lower tier, imagine how hard that advertises buying premium. In fact while I played XO I bought 30 packs but never even once a premium. Just didn’t feel there is any sense - grind faster? Don’t care. More XP to open parts? I did that with packs.
Just why? You literally can play at a low and medium PS forever. All that progression only gives someplace to put in things they grinded. It even doesn’t matter where you play, I remember devs nerfing chords because everyone was farming there scrap and stomped noobs with those copypaste hunter cab builds. The devs wanted relics to be really RELICS and Legendary really LEGENDARY. So that less and less people possessed them. You talk like “anyone should be able grind scorpion in a month”… Duh… so what? So everyone would fly scorp hovers and a few firedogs? Why even bother with having weapon tiers at all. That would make game trash even more because new player will have none to fight because everyone grinded to the top.

Epic to legendary is short enough. Legendary to relic - that’s an almost impossible gap. And even so, when they introduced fused relics prefabs I was like… wtf? Who even has that much to fuse relics. Turns out quite a bunch. And you talk grind is harsh.
The only thing you have to grind for is to get relics to fight on fair terms in CW. Why the f*** is CW so important? Because URANIUM!! EXPANSIVE!! MUST GRIIIND!!

By my experience I left 2 games twice when I grinded to the top. It was no fun playing there at all. I grinded too fast to that top and was still stomped like a noob because I didn’t accumulated enough skills through that fast grind. I was annoyed playing when balance mixed teams of different tiers and you would meet enemies that have just huge superiority because of tier. But funny thing is - when I got to the top - the problem didn’t go because I was still outclassed… by skill and experience of other players. Then I learned to appreciate playing at lower levels… forever if possible. But also found out that’s somehow it’s no fun when there is no purpose.
Crossout is literally the only game I found interesting enough to play without that grinding. Because you can do something better - you can redesign your craft endlessly and work on tactic, therefore have some progression without even moving up PS. And with time I got the feel that I learned to make good crafts, and my tactics are alright, so I can move higher up PS and try better builds there. I have a strong feeling that’s a good and right way to progress. Not sticking epics and legends to whatever trash builds and then blaming the game sucks. Or building meta and realizing you’re nothing better than meta slave.
Devs making long grind in fact only make players a favor.
And the only evil thing in playing lower PS - is you can meet crafts with higher PS that would outclass you, but it’s so unnoticeable, with how bad everyone at building and tactic.
World of tanks and War Thunder with armor mechanic will make your shots do no damage at all because enemy has tougher armor. That’s when grinding in mid PS sucks. And even more, in WoT at first for a loong time there were “premium shells” that had higher penetration values. How’s that for p2win? And those are very successful games.
And people talk how bad crossout is because of bad grind? Economics?? Other games don’t even have market.
Balance rollercoaster - that’s the only thing I agree with in general whine. Even so. it’s fairly ok if it’s not too bad. Heavy melee meta on low PS is even fun - make something fast and DPS and just shoot their wheels… I just loled when a melee was left vs me and some almost dead guy and just go self-distract with fully intact craft because somehow he realized running after me won’t end well for him, although they still get me a lot of times, that even makes that sport funnier. Some meta madness is even fun.

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#15

Just because Wot and WT have harsher and incredibly stupid grinding profile doesn’t mean that Crossout’s grinding is easy. You bought 30 packs and it made you skip the effort of actually grinding to get all those pack items and also got yourself enough coin to get plenty of other stuff as well. Getting one legendary item isn’t what makes the grind so long - it’s actually getting a multitude of items at each rarity that’s the problem here. Especially if a new player is trying to try multiple things for themselves before finding what suits their playstyle better. Or if they simply want to have multiple different options to switch between at any time. And it’s even worse if they need some piece of equipment that they can’t craft, because it was available for a limited time in a season pass half a year before they even started playing. Like the effin Flywheel for example, which is a critical piece of equipment every player needs.

And I know it’s a thing many players can’t fathom, but not every player wants to treat the game like a job and just to have fun. Maybe the grind would be more acceptable if the game wasn’t so monotonous, but there’s really just 1 base mode for PvP and 2 for PvE. If you could divide your grind among a far greater amount of activities, it wouldn’t all be so insufferable.

Oh and by the way… You think the game lacks youtubers who would sell the game to possible new players. Gaijin’s marketing gets enough different Youtubers to show off Crossout to potential new players. Hell, they got even PewDiePie to make a Crossout video, which lead to a massive spike of new players… And they all left within a few hours because not even War Thunder hits you with such a grindwall right at the start like Crossout does.

And on top of that, what Crossout lacks in is word-of-mouth marketing. Because it’s pretty much impossible to get friends/classmates/colleagues to play the game if you’ve been playing for a while. What do you tell them? “Hey, I’ve been playing this cool game called Crossout lately. Perhaps if you spend a hundred hours grinding or maybe a hundred bucks or two, we could play together”? LMAO
Go make a smurf account and make a set of Epic items (engine, cab, generator and a set of weapons with Flywheel/Seal), get a vehicle you could take to hard raids and then get back to me when you’re done. I’m sure you’ll have so much fun!

1 Like
#16

It doesn’t even have to be. but it is easy. Just slow.

What items? What for? I literally played first 10k battles at 4k PS. Tried to go higher but executioner hover meta didn’t made it feel playable.

Artificially created by players for whatever reason. They just try to get EVERYTHING. But most end up playing few builds and few weapons anyway.

Can just resell one item bunch of times. Waiting and playing with bets to get profit eat up that 10% fee.

Doesn’t cost much on market.

A player that takes it as a job is…I don’t even have word for that level of dumb and self neglect.

Maybe the game wouldn’t be more acceptable if you don’t perceive it as a grind?

Why the F is anyone even plays the game with mindset like that?? Sounds like a pulling through suffering for the sake of grind. TO GET WHERE?

It lacks at least one who like me, doesn’t sees the game as strain of inhumane grind and appreciate the creative part. Gromek was the one, but he seem to only care about how to makes some spectacular noob kicking exploits, not exactly the right appreciation of the game.

All you can do in few hours is try to doodle with interface, imo that’s the barrier they didn’t breach.

You can start playing and building right awawy. Get blue rarity things like in days at most. What few hundreds are you talking? Where do you think those few hundred even take someone?

Whyyy???

Whyyy??? (2)
To… GRIND?
(need a retcher for that, and lol you won’t use for pretty much anything else, except retcher dog woof woof)
Do you even know this game has something besides grind? Like vehicle constructor that you can take to battle?

Seriously now. You don’t see the point in the game besides grind. But feel soo focused and motivated to grind to something

What you get from that point? Why epic? People speed run the game to CW and find that fighting in CW you actually need relics and then go… buuaaa terrible game.

Is it so hard to grind to the cab with set of vectore, then sinus/piercers, cannons, hulks, whatever. and start actually playing and building getting beter bit by bit.
Epics are things someone shouldn’t even think of first month or more. There is tons of interesting build blue to special rarity. Maybe few epics for something advanced, definitely not a set.
One shouldn’t think of grind at all. Scrap just farms in battles itself. You can then sell it and buy stuff. It’s not to much difference. Especially if you didn’t “SUFFER THE GRIND”.
Oh ye you know I never really crafted anything. Because the output prices aren’t all that much of a difference. I would bother and craft things if could save like 30% price at least… but it isn’t so. I almost didn’t play raids. Sht is boring as fck… a pure grind. Why did I come to the game? shoot same bots in same missions over and over again?? Why?? Grind? I barely do 1 or more raid for dailies. Leviathans mostly. At least I see something new every time.

Do you even understand how miserable all that your focus on grinding sounds? Don’t take it personal. I know majority of players sees game like you… and they make it look pathetic. Like it’s a bunch of slaves… suffering… for grind. omg.
And they pin all their blindness on devs, like as if devs force them to griiiiiind. wtf is wrong with you people? Just play the game ffs. Build. Fight. Not your thing? Why you even here then? People think grinding better stuff will get them somewhere… oww boy how wrong they are.
Seen bunch of those. They hang in bedlam. Skilled one can outplay them with half of their PS builds. I imagine they don’t even go pvp, just some pve grind… and CW where they settle with being 300ish. Just ouch.

#17

You’re just putting words in my mouth, building a strawman around it and then attacking the strawman. I don’t give a damn about grind. I’m simply saying that the grind curve is too steep at the start and it makes most starting players drop the game too soon before they experience a huge part of the game. And it makes the game worse for those of us that already grinded or bought their way into the higher levels of the game. Because the number of active players is on its way downhill and if they made it easier for new players to establish themselves even on just Special rarity line of equipment, things would be better for all of us.

2 Likes
#18

What do you play for then?

#19

To have some fun. To blow up the enemy meta trash while driving artsy builds. To create new, cool looking builds (#freetheblueprints!). To support my clan in CW. And to bask in the madmaxish atmosphere when possible. Grind isn’t the ends for me, even if it sometimes ends up being the means.

#20

Alright, you made your point. Gotta go see high PS(again) and CW to see the complete picture.