devs should throw in a navi fairy module like from ocarina of time that tells you your enemies weak points lol. Like everyone is going to know that.
Not really as I’ve covered some of the same issues on other posts. Though I do think any changes have to be both to the underwhelming parts as well as the OP, rather than being one sided.
I just don’t have any real desire to engage in conversation with someone hurling insults beyond adding a meme in if it’s appropriate.
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Omniwheels needs it’s movement penalty reduced at least by 2% this will get rid of some of the lag that people complain about them having that they say hovers don’t have. I’d probably do this at the same time as raising the penalty slightly on the faster hovers by a near similar amount. This is one of those things that keeps players from using them at higher PS scores. When you get over 6 omni the lag starts to be fairly noticeable.
Rotational speed (not turn speed) of tracks, grinders, and legs need to be increase by a bit. To be able to hit a hover at distance especially with limited angle cannons you have to be able to stay ahead of the target via aim.
The acceleration curve for tracks is wrong, acceleration from a dead stop should be faster.
Legs and Grinders should be mountable on all sides. This is just following suit to the last mounting changes they gave to hovers.
Larger tracks need a little more fire resistance (more so laser resistance). They are really too slow to get out of the way to really deal with it via other conventional means.
Turreted larger weapons rotational speed has to adjust with distance to target in cross hairs. This isn’t meant to be any type of aim assist but to help a player manually track with a mobile object moving on multiple axis’s. The speed of travel across the arc angle has to be relative to the distance.
Explosive and penetration damage in regards to spaced armor needs more work. The pass-through resistance that frames currently have also heavily contribute to the issue of space armor. Currently all explosives in the game is just spherical at point of contact. This reduces any damage dealt to the interior of a spaced armor craft. If they did a forward directional shaped charge from point of contact blast damage could reach further into a spaced armor craft from the point of contact.
Height of flight with hovers this needs to depend more on the mass and remaining power of the build. If they want their flight height back post that they should have to pay in energy via some type of hover booster module. Think of it as a specialized engine for hovers. instead of a 1 en engine they spend 2 en and get the height return from the mass. This is specifically meant to target larger hover builds but I don’t want to cripple smaller ones at the same time.
We could really use some non-ICE motors in the game. The idea is that ICE motors have logarithmic acceleration. EV Engines could provide more linear acceleration. This would allow for there to be a transitional point between the two types of acceleration that is already framed out in the game.
For wheels in general the movement point power penalty is too high for ST versions. I’d suggest reducing it by about a quarter across the board with the exception of frontal wheels (Those are fine as they are right now in regards to the mpp).
I’d also like to see them make some basic user changeable ride characteristics for wheels. Not everyone agrees on how they like the wheels to preform in terms of traction and suspension. I’d like them to figure out and set user definable points between the few groups of wheel users. For example I like my shivs to slide and be on the spongy side, someone else might like them to be stiff and have very little slide.
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I can agree with this, apart from perhaps grinders being on all sides, they’re pretty huge for it. Also the next bit about fire resistance, you can rock a kami if you want that imo
I like the sound of this idea, but worry it may overly affect vehicles which don’t use spaced armour currently, it could be a bit harsh in that respect and still keep spaced armour as being the dominant method of armouring.
Like a golden eagle but for hovers in some way, small hover builds don’t tend to have tooooo much weight as it is, so I don’t think it would cripple them all too much.
I like the idea of an electric cab or engine, I’ve always thought a dual perk item like the power unit but for an engine/cab, where you swap between top speed and acceleration, almost like a little 2 gear thing.
Suspension per wheel sounds interesting, but I worry it may create less diversity within wheels
I can agree with quite a lot of your ideas, although I do think top speed or acceleration of VII hovers needs reducing in some way, I believe it’s a core issue.
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Kami with large tracks don’t mix very well do to weight restrictions otherwise it would be an easy drop in. If the tracks had better weight to carry ratios it wouldn’t be an issue. That ratio is kind of a separate issue though. The amount of heat say a laser heats large parts right now is kind of ridiculous though. If fine for smaller parts it needs to scale a little which is basically the purpose of saying add some extra resistance.
As per Grinders I’ve seen interesting sideways builds that that can’t really be done now without switching the controls back from the last drive with aim changes. I’d also suggest having omni wheels be able to be mounted in any direction too.
Non-spaced armor builds probably wouldn’t be affected poorly by it with the exception of hitting hidden generators. It’s just going to hit the next part in which is generally close by the first one. At the same time it’s not going to have the same width of splash around the point of contact. It’s similar to reducing the spread on shotguns. It’s just something I’d like to see them test. I think it should work as long as the projectile damage is high enough to knock off the first layer of spaced armor. I’d also really like to see them try alternative ammo types in the form of craft-able specialty ammo boxes. So we could play around with like the mastodon heating effect and similar status or blast modifiers on other cannons. (I’m not talking premium ammo but just a alternate ammo box that adds a switch to load the other ammo type you only build the box once). You could have stuff like cryogenic ammo that removes passthrough effects on armor then too.
Kind of like a golden eagle though it’s not dealing with speed. It would have to work with Mass and Power remaining after the reduction from movement parts for the flight height reduction. I’m figuring smalls would have more left over power at the end as they’ll just be 4 to 6x on the hovers. The larger hovers have anywhere from 8x and up and that’s kind of where it needs to be dialed in for. Having it be 2 en targets how many modules would actually be available to them. It has to be taken into account how much low power modules like the Omamori contribute to the current balance situation when in certain pairings.
I’m not as worried about the diversity of wheels generally at epic level players are for the most part competent enough to know what perks help their builds. So you’ll still see variances with that alone. What I’m more concerned with is the players that keep saying my wheels aren’t working correct after the last update type of thing. This plays a lot into the perception of what else is over powered in comparison. Allowing someone to dial in some of the aspects of how wheels drive I think would soften this a lot. One of the other things I’d like to be able to do on wheels is to adjust ride height slightly in a fixed manner in the garage rather than on the fly like some of the specialty wheels.
Acceleration is based heavily on the movement point penalty which I’m suggesting raising by 2% in the section on omniwheels. I know it doesn’t sound like a lot but it adds up fast especially with as many hovers as some players are running. If there is need for top speed reduction after that I’d look into it next but it’s better to adjust a single variable at a time when looking at balance.
I try to base them off of what people tell me they think is wrong along with what I’ve personally tested and experienced. I try to keep them fairly reasonable too.
There’s some other issues with slower heavy cabs vs hovers too but it’s hard to deal with that with out changing the fundamentals of how speed caps work. Big rigs and similar technically should be able to go faster then they do. IRL they are mostly speed governed due to center of mass issues and tipping. This could be eased back in the game too however they would need a way to estimate percentage of chance for tipping at speed and indicate it to the players in the garage build specs. I’ve dealt with this issue with some of my odd arty raid builds. I’d still advocate for softer limits though.
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Perhaps heating needs to work on a 9x9 block or flat 3x3 (or something similar) cube space of heating instead of parts, I can see how heating a whole goliath track looks compared to a bumper or something is a huge surface area.
I have nothing against things being tested on test servers, it’s how things should be done
I honestly think those people just have super heavy wheel builds and wonder why they don’t handle like mega nimble vehicles, or haven’t tried swapping their ST and non ST wheels around. Even for my own builds it took me some time to get used to the new handling but I really enjoy it, I love the vehicle rocking when accelerating and braking, you can really use it to your advantage for aiming weapons etc
But by all means if they could somehow many ride height work i’d be all for it, I love a lowered car, stance gang.
I’d rather they start with small changes on a lot of items which are already reasonably balanced, I see no issue in trying stuff like this… Remember when they increased drone damage by 100%, wild changes they used to let loose…
The thing is you’re probably smart enough to know when your ideas are in the right or wrong, it seems that way anyway, it’s just that when you threaten peoples broken items with actually well thought out balance changed they’ll still attack you and throw as much passive aggressive toxicity your way, I just don’t beat around the bush, we don’t work in the same office space… I’m not gonna be toxic in a passive aggressive sort of way or change the subject etc etc like all these sad kids do, I’ll just say it straight up lol
This place seems to just be a toxic circle-jerk of sad kids with a handful of people who actually care for the game, I wish those people would leave to and stick to Reddit, they’re only doing themselves a misjustice. But they can do as they wish in the end
I’ll have a meaningful discussion but also be toxic back to those who deserve it, I’m not gonna change that
Does anyone really “deserve” toxic responses? What exactly does it accomplish, other than letting you vent your frustrations?
I’m not innocent either, especially in the past. But I’ve noticed that when I behave nicer, so does everyone else.
Anyway, back to hovers:
I’m apprehensive about any huge changes to their acceleration. To me, driving them now feels close to how they should feel. Maybe there are other ways to try to balance out their advantages? Even just making them do a small amount of explosive damage when destroyed could help balance them without taking away all the fun. Also, I have always believed they should be far more impacted by weapon recoil, especially with cannons.
I think hovers are now in a decent place. The issue resides with the nerfs that was given to legs and wheels. While they eased up on wheel nerfs, legs are still too slow to rotate against wheels and hovers. Same goes for grinders…but they also are pushed around too easily.
Improve acceleration and rotation speed of legs, nerf kami, and we will once again see a nice mix of movement parts on the competitive side.
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Yes, I’m only toxic to those who are also toxic, no matter how much they want to mask it in backhanded comments and passive aggressiveness.
What do you think about reducing top speed, I think their speed is a huge part of the problem and they seemed almost okay when they were both capped at 75kmh
god sake ~
No way that would magically solve the current issues, they’ll just use Griffon, as they’re almost all fused for power already too
Yeah that’s the exact issue they have. The hover bots with lasers destroy them right now and have been doing so since they were added in on that first founders release. I like the laser weapons too but they has issues that need to be addressed and it plays into these other topics.
That’s how I feel too. The unfortunate part is they normally only get about 20 good and studious replies out of the community via testing on the test servers on each forum platform with duplicates not being removed. I’ve asked a few times to keep the test servers open longer do to time zone issues but that’s often ignored. I don’t mind experimental modes on the normal server either though. If anything they need to revise the testing system and make it more meaningful for players so they participate more.
Distance of travel for springs in the axels would be what they would need to mimic. I don’t mean this just for lowering but some weapons would preform better if the front wheels were dropped and the rear could be raised even in the slightest amount. The minute amount of angular incline travels over distance really well especially if you have a longer front end.
The knee jerk changes is what I’m trying to avoid. I don’t want people to quit over a small change. I’d rather just gradually find the right balance. The game is good enough to were any large changes can have just as large repercussions.
I use to work on games when it was just text and numbers the same issues still persist today when you make changes to anything that usurps meta. In classical rpgs you’ll see this issue between Warrior, Mage, Priest, thief, and any subclasses that combine them. The more cultish a game gets the harder it is to change the fundamentals of it too. It gets harder to balance between them as you have to add in compensation to each’s gain in power. The architypes are different in this game but the same compensation has to be given. When it’s not given the balance feels off.
There isn’t a reason to beat around the bush but some peoples idea of balance is just to ban parts all together. There has to be limits on what is done.
Actually the most toxic posters left and went to reedit and we like to talk about the game here. I think most of us still here would like the toxicity not to return though too, so if you come out with toxic remarks it’s just going to piss everyone off. We’re not scratching each other backs or anything. Most of us that stuck around know each other’s exaggerations and other peculiarities in describing things too. We get that it might not all be the other builds issue and the poster might be shifting blame too. If you look through the other topics we don’t generally act negatively to other people here right now. The forums in a pretty good place with the exception of some bad actors that come in with ill intentions trying to get a rise out of people.
I’ve said this before about people that say hovers are op they really need to tell us what the build they are using are. Without that info we can’t figure out why they are having issues or what needs to really change. For some builds they are playing it’s like the equitant of a halfling in full plate armor swinging a 2 handed weapon though. It’s hard to balance for some combos. I’m not going to short change it though.
I think the fast ones need to be closer to omni wheels in terms of power penalty. With the weight restrictions already in place they would peak through a little more in usage. PS balance doesn’t really work out side of lower scores so it has to be mass and similar stats that it’s worked out in.
At the moment I’d only say go down 5kmh.
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Yeah and I think a lot of people take for granted how balanced Crossout actually is when you consider how much freedom we have and the shear amount of items involved.
I hate this assumption, only a noob says that an item is broken simply because they lose to it; You can still know the most effective methods and builds to counter something but understand its balance problems. I like to assume when I can bring a well thought out balance argument that this doesn’t matter, but people still try it.
Although I do understand that some people just blindly accuse when they really are just bad or using a terrible slow tracked build etc (sucks how unviable slow tracks really are past 5k PS or so).
It’s hard everyone wants to be an ACE and the game to a point values short term exploitation to get there. The struggle is real in that sensibility. I don’t think the game would be better creatively if that was fixed but it should be curbed enough not to dissipate all other competition. Skill has to be allowed to show through the more granule datum.
I know the feeling but there’s no way for someone to tell on the forum though if it’s a Id10t error or something ( I don’t mean that to be insulting). So we have to ask questions that sometimes sound insinuating to figure out what’s going wrong. I don’t think anyone here though doesn’t actually care about the state of the game though. You can pretty much make anything in the game but there is no grata that it will preform.
I actually have a 15k machinist 2x goliath/4x hardened track build that does quite well in pvp but I don’t get to move much from base as everyone else is that much faster. Unless swarmed I spend the entire match bunkered in just taking pot shots at people over hill crests… A slow hover breaker build can out pace it though and pick off the single weapon. I know the limitations though an I’m not going to be unrealistic about expectations of performance out of it.
We need to try to fix the obvious stuff first then we can move on to the more insinuating warning labels to fix the other non-issues. It has to be checked though because any complainer could field any allegation they want though. If they aren’t checked then things get changed or not changed that do or don’t need to, and development time is wasted along with pissing players off… There is no way unless individually checking the players greenness to tell what their skill levels are at before replying.
Over all though I think things can be fixed for the better. Honestly if you spend more time with us you won’t think we’re all window lickers either. There are redeeming issues to conversations on forums.
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I just don’t like being judged by another morons low standards, y’know? I could show people my build and it would be pointless, I use a 9K PS sportscar with racing wheels, yet I have a 35% mvp per matches played and really don’t need a bunch of trash kids telling me how ineffective it is when the reality is that’s their standards.
I know for a fact people will use it as an opportunity to narrative shift as always and it’s just toxic, or perhaps just a herd mentality of trash. I could rant about this aspect for ages, I know I’m competent enough at the game that I can use less efficient builds for the sake of aesthetic and still out perform 99% of players I encounter on a day-to-day basis, what I use doesn’t have any effect on how I perceive game balance as a whole in comparison to other aspects other than just my own.
Not everyone here is, but the minority (or even majority now) who are bias and toxic in their own ways ruin it, I’m simply bored at the moment, I shouldn’t have looked here as it is, it’s been over 6 months… It just annoyed me seeing how little things change, I guess they just stagnate.
I would really like to see something done about spaced armour and pass-through parts before tinkering too much with movement parts.
This is really the first time that I’m actively playing every movement type regularly, and tracks are really the only ones that I’m not loving right now. Even those don’t need that much of a buff to get me excited again.
I’m convinced that if spaced armour weren’t so unrealistically effective, hovers wouldn’t be able to tank nearly as easily as they currently to, which would help them be the highly mobile but relatively fragile vehicles they should be.
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I’m beyond having a nerf / buff conversation about hovers. I’m done with this game until there’s a “No Hovers” game mode.
Why are you sticking around then? Are you still playing at all?
Honestly, I enjoyed this more than I thought I would.
I hardly miss a night though I’ve been moving data around so comps been busy, so I skipped last night. Just made the move to raid 1 next step raid 5 for data clusters…
I think you misunderstand. Kami is only OP in that it neuters dogs too much.
Icarus VII fly higher and faster than before, while flash was nerfed. And now IF a dog gets close, the kami completely negates the flash.
Griffon is a good cab but it wasnt a problem before for dogs.
We’re both non bias and well versed in the subject, the opportunity gets rarer
I can relate, I’ve had a lot of free time, I don’t regret spending it playing video games at all
Guess you ain’t coming back some random little buddy