Anyone else notice (movement parts)

Discussion
1

Anyone else noticed how there’s always that 1 omnidirectional movement part that’s just way better than any other movement part in the game?

At first it was hovers, then they nerfed Icarus 4 so it was Icarus 7, then they made Gerridas and Omnis “the one” and next up depending on how much they nerf the Gerrida it’ll be the Omni, but they’ll still keep it steady how Icarus 4 and Atom will be the sluggish “fair” omnidirectional movement part and then the faster ones are the same old zigzagging out of the reach of most guns/builds thing that was the original reason sideways hovers were sorta removed from the game.

So basically even with all this progress it’s still the same old sideways hover problem, just under a fresh new coat of paint once the previous one is “fixed”. Game has progressed but still insists on having the same core faults it had even before supercharged.

It’s like a pattern, pretend to slowly try to work the game out for the better with minimal changes and balance tweaks, and then roll out either a new part or some arbitrary change to the game that completely nullifies most of the previous work done and the game is back at square 1 under a brand new coat of paint. It never changes, there’s been so much done to the game and so many new parts added, yet it’s still the same old.

I bet this time next year when they’ve slowly balanced out the game, they roll out a huge change once again to some core mechanic of the game or how parts function that sends it right back to how it was at this given time and whatever work was done to it gets thrown out of the window once again and the general META is right back where it started, soke kind of omnidirectional movement part way better than anything else and a few specific guns that hard counter everything, with some new way to take advantage of how the game works (horseshoe omamori as a raw example)

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Or maybe it’s just that when you make a bunch of different parts with different attributes, some are always going to end up being more popular, no matter how much you try to balance them.

The only way for true balance would be if the parts behaved exactly the same, and that would be a very boring game.

All of movement parts are useful for some types of builds. Some of those types of builds will only be interesting to a few people, while some will be attractive to more people. When a part gets too popular, it gets nerfed. If it is too unpopular, it gets buffed.

There doesn’t need to be a more complicated explanation than that.

I have some of all types of movement parts, and I use them all. As popular as gerridas are right now, they have drawbacks, and are rarely my first choice anymore. They slow down too much on hills, and recoil also slows them down too much. They’re also not that durable, although that doesn’t matter as much, since you can still be mobile with just one.

Maybe it’s just impossible to make a game like Crossout truly balanced? If we were all playing pre-built cars, it could be. But once you give players the ability to make their own builds, some builds will be better than others. And that’s how it should be: making a good build (or downloading one) is just as important as driving well and having decent aim, not to mention tactics.

You are wasting your time demanding that the devs make all items equal. Not possible, and not going to happen.

3

they release stuff OP so that people will spend money to get the new thing, then they will nerf it and release the new thing OP so that people will spend money to get the new thing. . . . ad nauseum

2 Likes
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Of course it’s possible. It’s not rocket science, we’re talking about a game with like 4-5 different movement types, and a dozen numerical values at most.

It’d be more correct to say that Targem doesn’t want to balance movement parts, never tried to balance movement parts, and with posts like that basically validating their lack of work on balance and encouraging them to drown the game below more meaningless BP spam that never gets fixed, we ain’t going anywhere.

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You can never get true balance, all games like Crossout can never have balance and rely on a rolling meta. You see this in team based shooters, look at Overwatch or R6. Both games have regular content added, new characters and maps. These new things need to be balanced with existing things so they have balance changes much like Crossout.

The difference between Crossout and those other games is that the other games will do hot-fix balance updates based on the current state of the game. If a new character or ability comes out and is broken and not fun then they update the game to balance it out in some way.

Crossout does not do balance changes regularly enough to solve these issues and instead just uses them for monetary gain, they sacrifice game enjoyment for profit and it shows in the number of players who quit last year. We used to get more frequent balance changes if you remember but they just don’t bother anymore…

1 Like
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Again, you are comparing a game with pre-built characters that can’t be modified, with a game where we make our builds from scratch.
That is not a real comparison. And we get balance tweaks fairly often, just not always the ones you want.

Anyone could have predicted that when the devs responded to player request by introducing light fast legs that they would be immediately competitive with hovers. That was the whole point. But that was also the goal with omniwheels, which didn’t initially succeed in that role until they were buffed and until players figured out how to drive them. And where do Atoms fit into your theory? The profit margin on them would be
much higher than a BP item like Gerridas, so why aren’t they the OP new toy? Maybe it’s just because they can’t always predict what people will do with new parts, and there is no conspiracy to manipulate you.

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I can totally make that comparison, there’s no reason why I can’t and if there is then I’d love to hear it.

They never learned how to drive them though, they got camera steering to do it for them, that’s how bad our playerbase is.

I actually made a comment regarding this exact thing on Reddit.

https://new.reddit.com/r/Crossout/comments/1aii3kw/whats_up_with_the_atom/

cFkbJHl

It’s because Atoms are balanced

9

Are you honestly trying to say you see no difference between balancing Overwatch and balancing Crossout? Because if you can’t understand that, I’m not sure how we can even begin to have a conversation about balance in this game.
I struggle to accept you truly believe that, and aren’t just being stubborn and argumentative. You really don’t see the huge difference between prebuilt characters and custom builds?

10

Omnis never should have received the tweak they got sometime after supercharged, which is when they gained the ability to instantly transition perpendicularly. With this change the devs also removed the ability to brake with them by letting go of throttle while steering, and they removed what feels like ~40% of their diagonal acceleration. (going off trigonometry and a 45 degree angle) A year ago is when Omnis were at their best and hardly anybody used them, its not the movement parts its the camera steering.

Hovers have always just had ridiculous acceleration when fused for accel efficiency, they were and still are speedhacks because they have no delay between throttle and braking so they can just spam movement keys and most weapons cant turn fast enough to aim at them. Add in ping jitter, 200ms human reaction time, and server problems and light hovers might as well be speedhacking. Gerridas replicate this but to less of an effect though because I’ve noticed less of a throttle delay than the 400ms delay on everything except hovers. They also seem to have a more linear acceleration curve than other movement parts but they aren’t as linear as hovers. They are just a borderline blend of hovers and ml200 that has been pretty awful for game balance.

11

Im going to be real though, fuck not having omnidirectionals. I’m going to have to upset you here M420, If I want WT’s gameplay I’ll go play that snoozefest or WoT instead. There is not a single existing game live or dead (including robocraft) that has ever come close to offering the type of driving that non cam steer omnidirectional parts have. Playing Crossout with Omnis or Atoms, no camera steer and something like joules is the most fun thing I’ve done in a vehicle game.
The solution is to give wheels unconditional full reverse speed and diagonal steering and then nerf their durability so its possible to shoot them off like it is with every other movement part. For being the fastest parts in the game they are simply invincible and this fact is reinforced every single time a meta wheel build is driving around with more than 4 wheels with a flaming cab and 30% of its guns. Its just not possible to shoot hermits, bigfoots, or sabbaths off with anything. I never even bothered shooting them off with pre nerf Ghost Astraeus because they are that damn op.

Hovers seem fairly balanced now, Gerridas definitely need a nerf, Omnis definitely need to lose their instant perpendicular driving when they have momentum and get their diagonal accel back, and Augers need to be reverted to as they were 3 years ago with a major durability buff. Tracks just need way more attention as their controls are clunky and hesitant. ML200 need a major acceleration buff and a new perk, Gerridas also need a different perk. I would have the frames of a vehicle pivot within the legs with the camera and remove cam steer.

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You can’t explain why, because you have no reason

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Meanwhile more people just switch to pve patrols and don’t care much about that toxic pvp which is ever sunk in problems and toxicity. Talking of balancing… Why don’t we talk about elephant in the room? Meta party ruin balance more than any bias part/weapon ever could.

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I do not believe you actually expect me to hold your hand and walk you through the basic logic of the difference between balancing Overwatch and balancing Crossout. There’s no way you are actually that dense.

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Because you can’t, you know my logic is just fine.

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Cmon poony, twice a year is not to be commended. Its literally changing numerical values. I could do an entire balance patch in under an hour. Literally.

3 Likes
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DHawk you need to eat your shoes.

18

We both know they make balance adjustments much more often than twice a year.

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You either need to show us what Gaijin pays you, or start playing games that are actually updated and balanced.

Also I dunno about Rainbow Six, but I’d be very, very, very surprised if it wasn’t chokeful of personalisation options, like every shooter out there. If I compare XO to LoL, are you going to tell me “but predetermined characters”?

Anyway, the main difference between those games and XO, is that the meta hasn’t been the same trash no-skill 3 builds since 10 years in those other, good games. Imagine playing 10 years of LoL against the same Xin Zhao builds from the beta lmao. Say hi to flamers.

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Nah, it seems you’re the only one who knows it. You’re either the only rational being here, or in denial/deluded.

“b-but we get 3 balance patches/year! It’s 50% more than 2!”

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First of all, are we really trying to claim that Overwatch is a perfectly balanced game that Crossout should aspire to? I haven’t played Overwatch for years, but the people I know who are still serious about it complain constantly about how it is balanced. And back when I played it, there were always characters who were much more powerful and popular than others. From what I hear, DPS is still the most popular category, just like in Crossout.

But let’s pretend that isn’t true, for the sake of argument.

In Overwatch, when a new gun is introduced, every player is using the exact same build,. This means the devs can get quick accurate information on how that weapon is performing, and make quick adjustments. In Crossout, every new gun can be used on literally thousands of builds, most of which will not work very well, while some will work much better. Not only does this mean that the devs get very noisy data on performance, but also means that if they just nerf a weapon, it might make it completely useless on anything but the most efficient build. Or they can make adjustments to the other aspects of the good builds (hardware, cabin, movement), and risk breaking a bunch of other unrelated builds.

That complexity extends to every single new part they introduce, and also to every old part that can be impacted by the new parts. These are huge problems that a game like Overwatch simply doesn’t need to think about.

In Overwatch, the devs can focus on balancing a new character against other characters in that class (tank, healer, DPS, etc). They simply gave up on balancing the categories against each other, and instead imposed limits on team composition. None of that is available to the Crossout devs. Any cabin can use any weapon type, so light/medium/heavy doesn’t really mean much, and since there aren’t any categories and there isn’t a big enough playerbase, they don’t have the option of putting a limit on the number team members playing the same type of build.

In Overwatch, a very mobile character can be balanced by giving them low health. In Crossout, that can only be done indirectly through tonnage and mass limit stats, but as we all know, there are ways of making very tanky builds without getting that heavy. It’s just not a comparable problem. Not to mention that any attempts at forced fragility on fast builds can be subverted by fusing. There are thousands of possibilities to take into account. Balance for fused meta builds, and the unfused art builds become even weaker.

So no, comparing a game with pre-built unmodifiable characters to a building game with as much freedom as Crossout is just not a useful comparison.

Find me a game where your build can be customized as much as Crossout and that is balanced, and we can have a real conversation about that example. I’m not aware many games that offer this level of customization, so the pool is pretty small.

As far as the number of balance adjustments that Crossout makes in a year, lets remember that in addition to the occasional big balance updates that are put on the test server, there are also usually smaller follow up updates after the big ones to make further changes. Track all the updates with balance changes over a year, and it’s definitely more than 2 or 3.