Borers should have lower base damage but same perk as gremlin to slightly reduce the heavy borer plague.
i think the issue with melee weapons is they can frame you pretty much instantly. if they even graze your frame its enough to take it off completely. i know cause i used a few different melee weapons like the mauler and it surprised me how fast i deframed an enemy. practicly ran right through them and cut them in half without stopping. i mean… i dont know if its intentional. frames are usually extremely resistant to damage but if melee is used they just come off like its made of wet cardboard. i know they need a balance but… frames dont last 2 seconds with melee.
I dont have this problem - its easy enough to put a couple of bumper around you, but once you are pinned by heavy melee you are dead - you cant outdamage him, bastion+borer especially is kind of “slow boom build”. You cant defend, you can just wait and die. So at elast giving the pinned some time to defend based on cabin durability of the attacker would be nice balancing.
If your frame is removed before your cabin is burning, you are probably using the “split frame” design with space for fuel tanks below?
its not really that, its mostly that some melee weapons can just eat through your build super fast. maulers are pretty devastating in and of themselves. the issue is frames have alot of durability in terms of gun fire but not in terms of melee damage. some frames have 24 durability to like 32 i believe for heavies. it only takes not even 2 seconds of a melee weapon touching it to take it off completely. it should have a separate function / durability in terms of melee to range weapons.
i dont do pvp so i dont have fuel tanks.
I only do PvP and I don’t use fuel tanks.
I just made a lower PS build to try out the new AC, so I’m finally encountering the heavy borer meta. I kind of like it: it’s pure melee without slowing effects or fire (for the most part), and your success seems to depend a lot more on your driving ability. Having said that, they also seem to be capable of more damage than they should.
As far as frames, I always put bumpers on any exposed frame.
“it’s pure melee without slowing effects”
Melee IS a slowing effect in and of itself thanks to the broken shitty physics that all melee builds abuse by virtue of existing. Someone drives into your side and holds W, gg, you aren’t going anywhere. Melees are broken not because their stats, but because it’s impossible to escape them in most cases, and they synergize extremely well with other physics abusing BS, like the ability to lift opponents off the ground with ease and no negative consequences to yourself whatsoever.
All I know is that every time I try to play melee, it’s always harder than I think it’s going to be. If your initial approach is off, you are in big trouble most of the time.
The game would improve significantly if they just deleted all melee weapons from the game, a way out for the dimwitted to get cheap easy kills because they don’t have enough skill to drive around and shoot the enemy in a normal fashion, made even more horrendous by the fact you are pretty much super glued to anything you touch now with that ridiculous “wedge fix”. Keep the melee structure parts, but delete the weapons.
I’ve recently brought some new players to the game and helped them level up through all powerscores, and found the melee plague existed every PS I played at. Actually took a melee build yesterday from exhibition just to see what all the fuss was about, and was bored after less than 10 matches and had to change.
Yeah, it is pure melee, and somehow I like that it’s dominant when up in your face/side… But this much?
Nah-ah… Too much…
They main problem with Borer meta is 1 second and you are de-wheeled. If melee hits you on the front/back, it will push you (smart ones have Borers positioned to catch and carry), and bumpers won’t save you. You WILL die. But if he catches you on the side, you are insta crippled. And dead seconds later, but helpless in the meantime.
Borer gets nerfed, enter Buzzsaws… Those nerfed? Enter Maulers/Druzhbas … All of those nerfed? Well I wouldn’t be sorry, but it might put them in the same bucket Sidekicks are after they ware OP and then nerfed. Now no one uses them.
So if dmg nerf is not the idea?
Ok, make melee only equipable in a set of two most… More than 2 Melee can’t be mounted… So people will use them in combination with other weapons. Though 2 borers + shotgun would be new meta…
How about raise melee energy by double? Though 3 Borer meta will still be there at lower PS…
F*ck, I dunno.
Its not the damage. Maulers e.g. are epics and one expects them at PS 7k+, but thats rarely the case. True melees are basically non-existant at higher PS because for some reson team discipline and dps/durability ratio is different.
Supposedly people after lvl 30 of engineers are in different lobby, so one would expect all PS be same players, but damn its team behaviour. Try a melee on higher PS (i am excluding booms) and you will be shredded because teams stay in groups more and you because of higher time-to-kill you will be targeted by whole team.
Melees would die as boomiots do, but if everybody is trying to be hero heavy melees can pick players one by one.
It just needs a better balance of time-to-kill so if you pin somebody as heavy melee his time-to-kill you is at least similar. I do drive a fused build with a pal and we have 6 Guardians in total - we can take a trucker borer to the face and survive. So any 3 players should be able to stomp a heavy melee into ground by concentrating fire.
At the moment there are 3 melee concentrating on one ranged… it’s funny…
Although I would raise melee PS AND energy required. Once low level melee meets more tracks, legs and hovers, they will start thinking if it’s the weapon for them. Double melee PS.
Their effectiveness now comes from destroying wheels in a second. And then plow through.
You summed up my thoughts completely!
Incidentally, these borer builds are pretty much useless against hovers, and tracks can counter them decently (if they have the firing angles to fight back). But yeah, lack of teamwork is why they work well in low PS. Lots of new players, mixed with seal clubbing vets who are trying to one-man-army the other team.
Keep close to allies, and your chances of survival are always better!
One thing I noticed yesterday is that if you have a front plow, you can take the attack on the plow and let them wedge themselves on top of you. Then the tables are turned, and they’re the ones immobilized while you blow up their generator.
Agree, you always get the cannon guys with their “press W no skill” comments.
Everything has a skill, period.
I wish people would get over themselves and except that people want to have fun the way “they” want to have fun.
In a game where it is kill or be killed, everyones job is to make sure no one else is having fun. That’s just how war works. It’s not fair, their are no morals, only win or lose.
War, war never changes. Or does it?
I am aware of the state of our real world, but games are supposed to make fun to maximal possible number of people. YOu know - because games? XO makes reasonably fun and improving it would include more peoiple, thus more income to devs and mroe content to us all. “Eat it or quit it” is IRL mentality for which I am fing being paid for, its called job. XO isnt job.
Lol, you always get the range guys saying
“Why do these p&$$&s always run in and kill me. They have no skill”
Then you get the other guys that are like
“Why do these p&$$&s always camp in back killing me from across the map. They have no skill”
I say - if your dead, then your dead.
Borers are a plague in low PS. One of the few ways I’ve managed to soft counter them is with Hardened and Armored tracks. But that is a $1000 solution to a $100 problem.
hahaha i got hit by a fuze drone in a raid at full speed and i was stationary, it launched my front end into the air just from the ram alone. mind you my car is a howl with 2 porcs, apollo and 2 train plows with arbiters. how the hell that managed to lift my front end into the air ill never know but i found it entertaining xD
this is odd cause when i used melee people always managed to get off of my melee builds regardless of what wheels they use. well… some melee just obliterates most wheels but even still imo melee just does way to much damage to parts, especially frames.
the thing is i came across one of these melee builds in clan battles before, it was using maulers, ran into me and before i could do anything i was framed. i was using my leviathan and so was the other person. it framed me instantly as soon as it hit me and just kept going. mind you i have a ton of armor on the front to protect from up close builds and this vehicle just shredded through that and framed me instantly.
tracks can counter them but they have a weakness to which is the front and rear. hit them from the rear and its pretty much framed if they can get through easily or have a small enough build.
cannons take skill to use, i should know because i have cannons and to hit a target at long distance you need to know how your cannons function, trajectory, power, distance, etc.
i know the answer to this but people are just to dumb to figure it out. (if you want a hint dummies its cause cannons use RANGE to their advantage.)
All builds take skill