Borer

Discussion
41

But… but… it don’t look like a car.

Just kidding, nice ride man. Thank you for sharing.

Side rant below…

That is part of the problem with many people in this game. They will not change their builds to match the cars they are fighting. They would rather complain then come up with a solution.

It’s the “my car should work no mater what” kind of thought that is backwards. They don’t feel like they should have to change their builds to face the challenge, they feel like the game needs to change for them.

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42

Which sheds light on an underlying, much more prevalent issue: extremely stupid-looking builds tend to work well, and good-looking builds tend to not work at all. Just look at DHawk’s thing (no offense meant, DHawk), that does not look like it should work, yet it does. Same for the ridiculous spaced armor meta on higher PS, especially on hovers and spiders. Many people have a subconscious aversion of changing their cars to fit the requirements of PvP, because they don’t want to beat it to death with the ugly stick.

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43

I agree 100% with you, i not only always “change” my builds when i feel they are not working as great/being fun, but i’m also always creating new builds, every time i craft an item for “profit” i end up crafting it’s conponents, which means i always am getting “new” items to “try out” if i like them, i craft a full set of them later and keep them, if not, then i just craft the epic/legendaries with them, and sell them for a 40% profit…

But what really makes me upset is the wedge change, all my builds that could wreck melees, and multiples of them the same time even, became totally useless against them…

If one of them touches me, both my acceleration, and maximum speed drop to a round zero, which makes my 20000+ total health absolutelly useless as fire-dogs have 2000+ Damage Per Second, + the fact that they have insane health eficiency even worse, by abusing shot trought parts and pliws they turn a 1000+ damage kaiju volley into a mere 200 damage, which makes they have the same “effective durability” as the heaviest builds…

no matter how much “skill” i have, even the worst fire-dogs will get a guaranted win as soon as they “touch” me because i lose all my capability of movement…

All which happens extremelly often on any build that hoes lower than 85 KM (and is not a hover)…

It literally shifted “heavy” builds from being the best counter to melees, to extremelly large, slow moving “free points” signs for fire dogs…

Does not matter if the fire-dog rams into walls, bumps into scenery, gets heated, or even misses me due not knowing how to drive, because when it happens to touch me(which will happen if my build goes lower than 85 KM) it will be an instant win… no matter what i do…

Full melees are just laughable and plain garbage in mid-to- hight PS they have extremelly low damage compared to fire dogs, while actually requiring direct contact to the parts to damage it, while being hard countered by any bumpers, mech legs, hovers, and tracks…

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44

lmao, you left a couple of months back, for the second time in a big goodbye forever letter kind of way and now your addiction called upon you once again. are you going to be a big boy next time and just fuck off or is it going to be a big drama again?

there is a misconception about why melee is easy that i think you lack the insight to fully grasp. it becomes clearly visible in cw but applies to pvp 1to1.

first of all, playing melee solo is not easy. being the single dog in a otherwise hover comp in cw for example is pretty hard to get consistently right. the same in pvp, queue solo as dog and it can be tricky depending on what teammates you get.

this changes drastically the more dogs you have in your pack. playing cw in a full dog team is pretty easy. and in pvp too, e.g. if your team consists of 4 dogs (out of 8) and you all rush, you can often easily steamroll enemy teams.

now why is melee in a pack easy? because you almost always have the 1vs1 advantage up close and the overarching tactic is simply to cloak up at the same time and/or push together and force 1vs1s. the perfect cw melee gameplay is all about reaching the enemies together as a pack, nothing else.

thats very straight forward and you can see it in pvp when your team has a bunch of dogs. they drive in circles a bit and honk and then just all rush the enemies. its a decent enough way of doing dog things, it works.

so the tactic is so simple that it even happens naturally in pvp if you have enough dogs.

that cant be said about range weapons. the typical 4 hover cw tactic is all about map control, movement and holding down lanes (i watch a spot where i can shoot an enemy who could push or attack an ally). you have to always move as a group because you cant ever allow the enemy to push you.

this requires a lot more effort during the entire match compared to melees who just have to time their one single unified push properly.

in pvp its very rare that a random team of ranged players can achieve that cw ranged tactic. youd have to be able to rely on your teammate to cover one side for you to be able to cover the other because if he doesnt youll get rekt. it just doesnt really happen in pvp.

and in cw a movement/map control tactic with ranged weapons is the hardest to master. you need very good map awareness and excellent teamplay.

the dumbest by far is the dps brick tactic. its just driving to the cap and sitting there hoping you can outtank enemies. you could see pvp teams instinctively use this superbly simple tactic in pvp games during the time of the goliath seal clubbers. it worked really well without effort once you had a full squad of goliaths exactly like melee.

the dog tactic in perfection needs good timing, thats it. it doesnt have to be perfect by a long stretch though to be effective. it requires more thinking than dps bricks but not that much more.

and thats why dogs are easy as long as you have a few. can be hard solo though.

easy enough teamwide tactics that work and happen naturally in pvp.

4 Likes
45

Very good post right there.

46

Partially. if I am being told by the game that a build is supposed to work, I expect it to f-ing work. But some weapons are just not useful because situation where they excel is super rare and other weapons are just overall usable.
Lets say I believe the game in that I should pair Lunatic cabin - Growl, with borers. It seems like suggested build - and it will work more or less.
Other day I plug rapiers on wyvern and try to counter melee growl - depending on amount of bumpers I have it might even work out. But then, lo and behold, borer on trucker and one is steamrolled. Because the moment you encounter a heavy borer on narrow map you cant turn and run fast enough, and the moment he touches you, you are dead. There is no 1v1 counter to it at its prime PS range. And at most PS ranges there is a meta that can barely be countered if oyu are not lucky enough to be on specific map or spot on the map.

Also this. I am not in XO to get highest possible number on the screen, I want to have fun - and looking at spaced-armor abomination isnt helping.

Would be fun if attachment points had physics and armor plates held by puny buggy floors would just be breaking off on road bumps.

47

I don’t disagree with your post, but I would put the emphasis on the last part: teamwork is what allows people to steamroll the other team, and I would argue that good teamwork can do that no matter what kind of builds you are running.

CW is very different from PVP, and I’m not that interested in CW. In PVP, pure melee/dog teams can do very well, but timing alone won’t always get you there, as the bigger teams introduce more chaos and more possibilities for that perfect rush to get messed up. And when a rush goes wrong for close range builds, they’re the ones that get steamrolled.
Sometimes all it takes is a single bot rushing your charge, and tangling up the melee builds at a range where the opposing long range players can pound you from a safe distance.

Anyway, I play solo 99% of the time, so I can never rely on teamwork to get me the win, no matter what build I’m playing.

48

Would be fun if attachment points had physics and armor plates held by puny buggy floors would just be breaking off on road bumps.

IMHO all parts should have durability scaling depending on how well they are connected. A part that is used as spaced armor and held by some puny buggy floor as you put it should be much easier to shoot off than the same part if it’s an integral part of the vehicle’s structure, connected in many places. Most weapons should also be able to pierce through a part and hit the things behind it if the shot’s damage exceeds the part’s remaining durability. Also, there should be collision damage with the environment. It would solve a lot of issues: wedge builds (by forcing ground clearance to be respected), brainless people driving like morons and bumping into everything, spaced armor abominations (armor would stick out and break off easily by careless driving).

Alas, these are heavy-handed changes that would turn the game upside down, so nothing like them will ever be implemented.

49

So where is the feature in the game where it tells you your build should work? Or is good?

I would love to use that feature.

Also your talking about low PS problems, push past that part of the game.

50

This is me too. I do play in CWs, but I almost never play in a group in missions. It just does not feel fun running in and killing everyone without a fight.

I would rather me VS the whole enemy team then run in a group.

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51

It is implied that factions are there for a reason and slapping together parts of same rarity from same faction should at least work, I dont expect MVP, just perform reasonably. Also - new players will take inspiration from bots.

52

I would disagree that it is implied… I would agrue that it is encouraged to mix factions, but that’s not what I’m talking about.

People should not be rewarded for “slapping” Parts together.

A “good” build is much more then using faction or non-faction parts.

If someone is “that guy” that plays a box on wheels with his gun slapped on top of their car without armor…. Well then no amount of parts are going to make that build good.

The “I want my car to look like a car” guys brain is stuck in this earthly world and does not live in the world of Crossout. XO is completely different then real life, so to make cars that are “good” you have to play within the rules of the XO world and not the rules of our world.

53

Beg to differ - builds “provided by factions” DO look like cars and I f-ing expect them to work. If game is rewarding me build templates - I am assuming those are at least mediocre.
I do have “XO logic” builds, that are ugly spaced-armor things to collect MVPs and wins. I am not proud for playing meta.
There should be so many “working meta” builds, that one doesnt feel like it would be actually reasonable if you had 5 pre-build cars for each PS-braket that would be pretty much same as now.

54

We all know the faction builds are outdated and not worth using. That’s obviously why that build competition is going on. It’s to update the faction blueprints, not for the bots.

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55

The thing is - I doubt they will provide us with “true meta” builds, because those will not work either. What build can you make out of single faction parts at 6k PS to counter the (to loop back to the original topic) heavy melee? Or facehugging shotgunners? It will look like DHawk216 has shown - it works, but it doesnt look like “car”. Its a tool, a mad mechanic contraption to perform a task, an unholy heresy in the eyes of earthly avatar of Omnissiah.
You cant slap it onto the game title page.
All the art we have been shown, all the “packs/builds” - it all LOOKS like something from a cool MadMax-style movie. The builds that DO work in XO look like somebody welded a pile of scrap together. Have you consciously seen the loading screen of the current season? Chase with a medium cabin on omnis and Kaiju? I dare you to drive Chase with the build “as shown”.

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56

Oh boy…