Breaking the 8k PS threshold without bloat

[13thDisaster]

Hello everyone! Firstly, I’d like to ask for help. Secondly, since I am newer to crossout I don’t know a whole lot, so please correct me if I’m wrong about something.

Now to the main meat of what I wanted to talk about: How do I break through the 8k PS threshold without excessive bloat? I’ve been using MG’s or AC’s mostly and I find that I either get to 8k PS with a ton of extra junk slapped on or I’m just shy of it. At best, I can field teal MG’s/AC’s, and the best cabins for those I have are the Harpy and the Ermak. The harpy is pretty light on tonnage, but Just barely misses the 8k mark with what I have, currently clocking in at 7206 PS. The Ermak, I usually pair with the MG’s for the cabin bonus specifically. It clocks in at 6807 PS. Below I have screenshots of both parts lists. Any advice you could give is welcome.

[The_Purple_Snit]

Just a coupla general thoughts.

First, breaking the 8k threshhold with teal and blue weaponry may very well leave you bruised, battered, and feeling sorry for yourself (I’ve been there). At that level, you’ll be fighting against players/bots with gold and purple weaponry. It’s understandable to aspire to higher powerscores, but you have to have the right firepower to have a fighting chance. As an example, I had a 4 x R37-Adapter build. The build was somewhere in the low 10K range, and it sucked because the Adapters couldn’t match what I was facing. I dropped it back to a 3 x Adapter build, compacted it accordingly, and while I forget the PS range it’s in now (probably mid 8k), it’s at least playable. Some weapons were just not meant to shine at higher ps levels, the exception being some ultra-skilled players who can make anything work, anywhere.

Secondly, when you can, get the Hermit wheels. You’ll never go wrong using a build with Hermits, and as someone advised me when I first started playing, they’re considered “OP” for medium wheels, and they still are. The faster you go, the more damage resistance they have, and their tonnage limit is very good. They’ll keep working for you as you go higher in PS. Also…it’s a good idea to put steerable wheels on both the front AND back. Yes, steerable wheels support less tonnage, but in exchange, you’ll get a tighter turning circle which makes for better maneuvering. I made & still make alot of 6-wheel builds using a steerable Hermit at each corner, and a pair of non-steerable ones in the center to give me the tonnage.

Hope this helps.

[13thDisaster]

I have noticed that, I tend to get swatted around and beaten alot, no matter what I’m using. I have ideas on what I would love to build, but coins are my main limiting factor for that. I play the market to the best of my ability currently, just takes time to get materials together to get anywhere really.

[derp_driver]

8k is easy compared to 4k, no pro seal clubbers there, i find enemies are much easier to deal with on 8k.
if you feel constantly smacked around, stop putting yourself in that position, buy a doppler and enlarge your minimap to full size, go for speed and burst damage, instead of face tanking.

[Dirty_Hamster]

@13thDisaster Judges work really well for learning cannons and work well for the Harpy cannon if you want to try a more maneuverable play style. I eventually went to fatman and an echo cab for reload though instead of dmg. However while learning and I still miss fairly often I just went up the limited angle cannons for a really long time.

[Горынка_Упорынка]

You don’t need to yet.

First of all, you have teal or blue guns. They’re (with some exceptions) are, like, playable at 6k max, no further.

Second, the bulk of your PS will be a cab, a generator and some weapons.

Third, i already see some faults with your builds.

@13thDisaster

screenshots of both parts lists. Any advice you could give is welcome.

Now, autocannons aren’t the worst, but certainly not at this build. Wasting 5 energy is also over the top (“sniper autocannons” as i call them basically require 1 shiver and 1 chill (maybe a seal instead).
Also your builds have WAY too many wheels. I get it, you need to cover tonnage - but more wheels = you pick up speed slower.

The second build is also… meh, as wheeled machinegun builds should be speedy and fast, they rely on speed so they wouldn’t be degunned as fast.

I’d suggest scrapping both builds (keep the seal and arrays though!!), invest in 6 hermits (4 steer, 2 non-steer - these are a good all-rounder wheel), and buy 3 leeches, jannabi and aggressor.

Leeches are kinda broken right now (but you need to cover them up in a specific way - look up “barash systems” or “bwehcube” on exhibition to get what i’m talking about, you need a syndicate bulky bamper and also a tractor plow style one), jannabi is a really good cab for run-and-gun style gameplay (sorta what you’ve tried to achieve with your ermak machinegun build), and aggressor is also good on some builds.

[Горынка_Упорынка]

Sorta something like this?

It’s effective lol

[13thDisaster]

@Горынка_Упорынка

buy 3 leeches, jannabi and aggressor

You mean buy these cabins 1 each right? I doubt I can afford all of them

[Горынка_Упорынка]

yeah lol, you wouldn’t need 3 jannabis. Just one of each cab

[13thDisaster]

There are no leeches on market, and I am not exactly sure why you suggest the aggressor. Could you elaborate?

[Горынка_Упорынка]

Because with some builds you wouldn’t be able to consistently drift, leeches, being frontal shotguns, is one of these cases

[13thDisaster]

I’ve made a mg build using the jannabi, I’ll post it after a test match

[13thDisaster]

It’s not super pretty, but she works well enough for me. What are your thoughts @Горынка_Упорынка ?

[Poony4u]

Generally you should be trying to get your PS as low as possible, rather than increasing it.
I know you need to have it high enough to enter certain modes, but in my opinion you are better off spending your time in modes where you have enough gear that you’re trying to reduce your PS.
You want to be the club, not the seal.

Jannabi is a good cabin, but better with turreted guns or drones than fixed angle guns, as you need to be drifting to get the bonus, which means your guns are going to be shooting sideways a lot of the time.

When it comes to deciding which parts to buy first, I look at what part of my build is failing most often, and improve that first.
Wheels getting shot off? Buy better ones. Guns not doing enough damage? Get better ones. If your overall durability is the issue, that could mean changing cabins, or changing wheels/engine so that you can carry more armour.

[Горынка_Упорынка]

Not too bad, the only problem i see is the way your vehicle is built. Usually run and gun wheeled builds place their weapons in a diagonal pattern. This means your weapons can attack enemies from more angles instead of just in front of you.

Also this makes it easier to use jannabi to its full potential.

[Горынка_Упорынка]

What i’ve also want to mention (this will be really useful in the future) is how certain factions have different stats.

• First, usually you shouldn’t care for damage reductions (aka features).

They don’t matter as much as you think. (some people do build around them, but it’s not a good idea to use these if you’re new at the game, and most of the time it’s fine to not utilize them)

Unless it’s damage passthrough.

This stat essentially is “if there’s a 90% damage pass through, only 10% of damage will be applied to that part”. If i get a projectile with 200 damage and it hits a gun mount (90% passthrough), it will recieve 20 damage, and that projectile will continue flying, but it will have 180 remaining damage.

• Second, all parts have PS, durability and mass parameters, but some parts excel in one of three parameters at the cost of other one.

High HP at low PS, but at the expense of high mass:
Steppenwolves (average 2.72 HP per 1 PS - but 0.39 HP per 1 kilo)
Scavengers (average 2.615 HP per 1 PS - but 0.41 HP per 1 kilo)
Founders (average 2.48 HP per 1 PS - but 0.445 HP per 1 kilo)

High HP at low mass, but at the expense of high PS:
Lunatics (average 0.675 HP per 1 kilo - but 1.41 HP per 1 PS)
Firestarters (average 0.6 HP per 1 kilo - but 1.7 HP per 1 PS)
Ravagers (average 0.58 HP per 1 kilo - 1.84 HP per 1 PS)
Engineers (average 0.57 HP per 1 kilo - but 1.95 HP per 1 PS)

• There are also three reinforced parts which are excellent since they provide high HP per PS at a relatively low mass. These should be at EVERY build you do.
  
  

[Poony4u]

I’m not going to say you are wrong about diagonal weapon placement, because it is a popular layout for a reason, but for me personally it’s never been the best option.

Diagonal means that you can shoot sideways, forwards, and backwards (which is good), but also means that you are blocked in one diagonal direction forwards, and one diagonal backwards. I rarely find myself wanting to shoot perfectly sideways, but I am shooting diagonal almost all the time. Giving up two diagonal approaches just isn’t worth the advantages for me.

There are some other disadvantages as well, but I’m going to skip them and focus on the bigger picture for gun placement:

No matter how you place your guns, they are going to block each other in some situations. You need to figure out which situations are the most important for your build and playstyle. There is always going to be a tradeoff.

When I’m using either of the drift cabins, I find it better to use different elevations and put them in a row. One gun goes on the roof, the next on the hood, and the third one in front of the cabin on either the frame or on a buggy floor (depending on the height of the weapons).
With that setup, you are only blocked from firing backwards, and are free to drift back and forth while tracking your victim with your guns. It also means that a single cannon shot won’t hit all your guns at the same time.

In some cases, you may want to use larger wheels on the back, to allow you to put armour in front of your guns without blocking your downward angles.

There are lots of viable approaches, so the important thing is to do a lot of testing in the garage to figure out where your blind spots are, and also whether your barrels are blocked from pointing down (very annoying on hills).

If I don’t want to have a long build, sometimes I will mount two guns to the back of the roof of the cabin on the corners, and a third on the hood in front of the windshield. Or if the gun is tall enough, mount the rear ones to passthrough parts one block below the roof the cabin to protect them better (this is where tilting the build with different sized wheels is sometimes needed).

Four gun setups require a bit more inventiveness, but the principles are the same.

[13thDisaster]

@Горынка_Упорынка

There are also three reinforced parts which are excellent since they provide high HP per PS at a relatively low mass. These should be at EVERY build you do.

I would use them if I had them, but I do not.

@Poony4u

I find it better to use different elevations and put them in a row. One gun goes on the roof, the next on the hood, and the third one in front of the cabin on either the frame or on a buggy floor (depending on the height of the weapons).

I also tend to follow this same kind of placement and can confirm that there are very limited times that I am unable to fire all at the same time.

I’m short on BP space atm, but I will make adjustments in a new build when able

[Горынка_Упорынка]

@13thDisaster

I would use them if I had them, but I do not.

You can get them at Engineers badge exchange, 300 badges for 1 part

[Горынка_Упорынка]

@Poony4u

When I’m using either of the drift cabins, I find it better to use different elevations and put them in a row. One gun goes on the roof, the next on the hood, and the third one in front of the cabin on either the frame or on a buggy floor (depending on the height of the weapons).
With that setup, you are only blocked from firing backwards,

It’s not better. You need to shoot backwards pretty often, and with how the game follows so called “toilet movements” (aka the teams go in a circle, which represents how the toilet is flushed… Look, it’s not me who named that thing, so let’s roll with it), you can safely disregard shooting left more often than shooting backwards.

Also your setup involves placing weapons on a pedestal of sorts, which is usually unarmored. While most weapons have less HP, you still open a possibility to be degunned not because of weapon HP itself, but because the said pedestal was broken.
This is miles worse if you use damage passthrough parts. Humorously, “PUT WEAPONS ON GRATE PARTS” was #1 advice since 2016, but with how devs added cryo weapons (ahem, cust elephants, ahem), you need both grate (passthrough parts in general) AND regular parts for this.

Because your 380 EHP gun mount suddenly becomes a 38 HP gun mount. Cause 'phants turn that effective HP into just HP.

edit:

Spoiler

There are some outliers of course (like these old KTM arbiter sausage builds), but the rule still stands. “Don’t experiment too much, 95% of the builds follow the same formula, you can experiment when you REALLY understand the game”.

Like, come on. Almost all newbies i saw fell victim because they didn’t abide to that rule. This is a prime example:

1. Your melee build sucks because everyone just runs away from you. Instead of using boosted cockpit and solving that problem (plus getting a hefty damage boost), you put a skinner, which technically does solve that problem - but it’s a crutch, and using that crutch is bad since that newbie wouldn’t naturally get to a more efficient solution “because this works!”.

2. Same for the second guy. “My wheels suck because i constantly ram the walls. Oh! Here’s a wheel that allows me to recover from the walls quickly!” - the wheel sucks in every other regard, but… hey, at least he’s recovering from the walls quicker now.

TL,DR: don’t experiment yet, 95% of the builds utilize the same tactics. Experiment only when you’re comfortable enough (hundreds, if not even a thousand or more hours of playtime). Lots of new players arrive to a wrong conclusion because they’ve discovered a crutch through experimenting, and that wrong conclusion would stick with them for a long time.