Cannon rework will fail to make Cars “Beautiful” - the complete death of wheel builds

Discussion
#1

(Yes- the title is click bait)

I use the word “Beautiful” loosely - but I see some of the Art Build guys getting excited about the cannon change thinking that this will force people to make cars that they think are beautiful.

This is sooooo far from the truth.

Military history has proven that when using heavy armor it is more effective to spend most of your armor weight on the front of your vehicle.

This holds true even more when you have omnidirectional movement parts. In real life this is how tanks are built.

So, I’m sure the light is already going off in your head, omnidirectional movement parts will still be king in Crossout and front loaded armor will still be the thing.

We might need to use a little heavier armor to achieve the desired effect, but who do you think will win more often after the patch? 1) A hover with all of its armor facing forward that can turn on a dime and stay facing the enemy OR 2) a wheel build that has to cover their whole build with armor because they can’t keep the front of their car facing the enemy?

Do cannon need changed? Sure they do.

Is this going to make everyone build art builds? No, lol

I hate to say it, but the change to cannons is a omnidirectional movement part buff. Hovers, Bigrams and Omniwheels will benefit from this patch the most. This will be the another nail in the art build/wheel build coffin.

#2

Existing armor will increase the durability of the cabin, so there is no need to put it at the front end of the design, compared to the bumpers are more like armor, but they do not increase the durability of the cabin at all, if you use them you have to protect the cabin in any direction, but this will lead to low cost performance, so I mentioned in the proposal a new armor that is a combination of the bumper and the existing armor: only part of the durability will be provided to the cabin, for example, a 100 durability part will only add 40 durability to the cabin,At the same durability, it weighs and ps less than existing armor, perhaps slightly higher than the bumper, even if it is not impact resistant

#3

This is just not true.

I currently have 17k+ Hover builds with the cabin completely exposed in the back. Many Clan Wars designs do this.

I will take 90% of my hits to the front. (Made up stat, but the point remains)

What power score do you play at?

#4

While I do get the gist of this post, it’s a bit of odd reasoning. You go from doubting that “Art” would benefit from this to nails in the coffin of Art builds. The advantage of omnidirectional movement components was already there. Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see any change there. Incidentally, I doubt that “Art” builders are terribly interested in the effectiveness of vehicles. In comparison, those who now use spaced armor will suffer the most, those who don’t use it much less. So you may wonder which coffin gets the most nails. Personally, I don’t think much will change for Art builders, or players who don’t use spaced armor now, at most that they will encounter less of those moving scrapyards in the beginning, until there are enough variants of next armor meta on exhibition again .

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#5

Nope, your not missing anything at all. It is the point of the post.

On some of the other posts a few forum members expressed the opinion that this change will force people to not build ugly meta cars.

This is just not true, the ugliness might be a little different looking, but building things that look like real cars will never be optimal.

I’m also suggesting that I think this patch will push omnidirectional movement part in a direction to be even move OP.

This is all food for thought, I have no personal agenda. I just think in the end, people will be even more disappointed.

Who knows :slight_smile: but it’s fun to think about.

Time will tell

1 Like
#6

All ps
They are not without armor, so the cabin has some durability

#7

I think the reality will be somewhere in the middle. I don’t see strafing parts as getting a buff through these changes, with the exception of heavier builds like spiders and meat grinders.
I predict some hovers will keep their existing spaced armour, but be forced to play more cautiously. This will mean the shotgun hovers that recently appeared won’t be so successful anymore, and that we’ll likely see fewer MG or minigun hovers.
If long range weapons start becoming more dominant again, that also opens up room for fast close range builds to counter them. Wheels should be stronger at that after the changes, so I expect to see more dogs and shotguns.

As far as art builds go, I can already see how the changes will help my little cars (I wouldn’t call them art builds, but they are more car-like than meta builds). Because I don’t rely as much on pass through parts and spaced armour, I’ll have a similar amount of durability as I did before. But the spaced armour enemies I face will either be heavier and slower, or will be less durable and still fast. Even if the change isn’t huge, it will definitely help me.

When I’m playing small fast cars, I’m already focused on staying in motion to avoid being hit by long range players, so more powerful cannons aren’t going to change much for me.

I think the changes will benefit heavy builds of all kinds the most. I suspect spiders will become a lot more popular again.

So yes, spaced armour isn’t going to disappear, but it’s not going to provide as much of an advantage as it used to, which will allow other build styles to be somewhat more competitive.

Overall, I think the biggest shift in the meta will be that mid range DPS won’t be nearly as dominant as it currently is. There are still going to be lots of hovers, especially at high PS.

Edit: if hovers get heavier (and I think they will), they won’t have as much of a handling advantage over wheels, which makes it a lot easier to flank hovers than it currently is. Makes me think I will be rediscovering Griffon, as it’s still a pretty effective way to surprise hovers and get to their delicate rear ends.

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#8

Builds like that do not use armor in the sense of armor as additional hp but as deflectors :sunglasses:

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#9

True, but this will still be the same after the patch.

They might use different armor pieces or placement but the design will look very similar to the current meta.

I for one embrace the new change, but I also don’t have faith that it will make people want to build cars that look like real cars.

P.S. I’m just being devils advocate for the sake of conversation. I couldn’t care one way or the other :wink:

#10

I don’t either, but it’s an interesting discussion indeed. By the way, I’ve always understood that when buffing/nerfing or changing mechanics, devs don’t focus on the limitless PvP and CW players but focus on playability for everything below.

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#11

Those can be seen as a very light but sturdy bumper, but this is clearly unbalanced, as changed in the test server

#12

Yeah, Griffon will become more used again I’m sure. But I think that the perk of griffon is an un-need crutch and many cabins are better.

P.S. After the patch I think things like Double Reaper, Double Bubble, Nova, hovers will be a cheeper counter to cannons. I did mention this build before after the last patch, it is very good right now but popular opinion is under valuing this build, it will be even better VS a cannon meta.

#13

I’m already seeing more people running shields since the last update, so that may become a more common strategy.
I’m excited to see how players figure out how to abuse the changes. I don’t think any of us really know how this will change the game.

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#14

Agreed. That’s the exciting part.

My brain is already turning thinking of how to break it. I plan to release as many new builds as I can the first week after the patch. Get the meta up and running :slight_smile:

#15

I think a lot of it will come down to how to protect modules. When the shell durability is high it can go through multiple layers of armor. We’ll probably see a shift to having more armor around those sensitive bits till they balance that out. This will probably be more true on spaced armor builds.

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#16

I think that cannons with bullet speed will see a vast jump in effectiveness, particularly the Tsunami and the Typhoon. Mammoths and Mastodons may have some trouble with these changes because anything other than a clean hit can go right through builds and out the other side. Before, Mastodons would explode on outer parts of spaced armor and heat and do damage to the inner core.

I don’t think Avalanche will change. I think that Avalanche has been a preview of the new cannon rework and Avalanches already bore through spaced armor before exploding.

Small hovers will suffer greatly. Expect Kami/Beholder/Griffon hovers to disappear as ultimate meta, and only heavy hovers, especially Nova to still dominate. One cannon shot will be able to take out multiple hovers at the same time in the new update and most Icarus VII builds don’t have tonnage to spare from losing multiple hovers.

If small, overly fast machine gun hovers are predated on by cannons, then Blight firedogs will probably return.

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#17

I see you post alot about being a premo builder (on Xbox at least). Show us some builds, cause i could tell you im on of the best builders in XO, but without some examples, its just me saying it.

(P.s.- I am indeed on of the better builders in the game, ive created no less than 3 metas, including the arena 9k diagonal shield destructor build)

#18

I plan zero changes to my 499 durability executioner build. I think it’s beautiful in it’s simplicity. (pretty much already die from a hit from a cannon anyway)

exefront
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I armored up the back pretty good imo. More than I usually do.

exeback
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#19

I have seen this said by players many of times. But have never heard that form a developer.

Just one of many examples, but they nerfed the cockpit cabin to help with Levi CWs - so it can’t be said that they never balance for CWs.

#20

I don’t know for sure what will happen. But if cannons become more popular, weapons that counter them will also be more popular.