Crossout=pay and win

I think it would be linguistically correct to say that they are meta builds within the restrictions he came up with.
“Available” would normally mean the entire game’s items, but there’s no reason you can’t modify that with “within these parameters”.

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The reason you don’t modify it is the same reason Rex mentioned above. We need to know what people are talking about when they use a word or it is hard to have a conversation.

The definition can’t just change because someone thinks it should.

If so… then I say C… A… T… really spells dog.

There’s no issue of confusion if the parameters are stated, like they are here.
People add modifiers to words all the time.
You could make up a new term for what he’s doing (and I guess he kind of did), but it’s useful from a communication point of view to be able to also say “meta for lower level players with limited access to parts”. There’s no confusion there, because it’s obvious what is meant.

Now if people started describing those builds as meta without any context, that would be a problem, but that’s not what’s happening.

This debate reminds me of the arguments I would have with the fact checkers and proof readers back when I was a writer. Entertaining!

I think what he means is that the word, or the Acronym at least, allows for variables. Like the word “available”. That isn’t a constant. For example: what’s available today is not the totality of what will be available in the future. So the definition of META will change for this game according to what is then available. Just as availabilty of parts does indeed change for aces as they progress. They simply aren’t allowed everything, right off the bat.

As long as the word “available” is a part of the definition of “META,” that definition is going to change. Take that word out, and it’s a whole different ball game. Then it just “The Most Effective Tactic, period,” right?

I’m reminded that it’s not so much about parts, as it is about technique, so maybe I’ve veered off the road a bit.

There is nothing meta about his builds though…

Not in design, items, co-drivers, not anything.

Let’s just use the term he gave them, instead of forcing one we already use to match what he is doing.

BUT with that said :slight_smile: lol

If someone (every single time) says “meta for lower level players with limited access to parts” then we would all understand, but that seems kind of excessive.

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To be fair, I don’t think Charlie thought the term META was accurate for what he was doing either, and went with something different.

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Sometimes I feel like I’ve had a lobotomy after coming here. LOL

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Weapon balance is not terrible, its pretty ok.

Movement part balance is the big issue of the game.

As for your title:

In long distant past, i was arguing crossout is not pay to win and i was mostly, wrong.

And i think its time to say it without any bias, Crossout is a pay to win game.

The main reason behind that statement is fusion and the advantages it gives.

Yes, there are no locked doors, everything is accessible through the market, but no one can convince me that its not pay to win when i can invest whatever money it is needed to gain access to a fully fused blue-epic-legendary-relic car within minutes when without money it might even take months-years.

We can argue if its a soft pay to win due to the fact that there is powerscore and skill+teamwork plays big role in actually winning, but thats pretty much as far as it goes.

We can also call it pay to get an advantage, isnt that pretty much pay to win?

I think its time to close the matter, things are pretty clear.

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Spot on.

Nah… it’s still free. It’s still free to win big time. I’m sorry, it is.
Granted, if you want to win with relics, you’ll certainly be paying, but you don’t need relics to win.
You don’t need legendaries.
You don’t need epics.

Wanna see me do it? I’ll post a boring video of me mopping the floor with folks using a bunch of blue crap.
Free to get easy blue crap.

Get 3 of 'em & upgrade 'em.

No money involved.

I dunno, guys… so long as I can do that, claiming this is P2W is a hard sell.

But you’re free to disagree… won’t change anything.

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Yes, you can win with anything. But that is not a testimony that the game is not p2w, unfortunately…

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Seems to me it is.

This is not the same, the version of meta we use should be spelled like this:

M.E.T.A.

It’s not a single word - it is an acronym.

But people are lazy - so we get “meta” and “META”

Either way, any rig running all blue parts is not
META
meta
M.E.T.A
MEAT
Met Her
matter
hatter
fatter
Okay, maybe it’d be fatter.

In most games I would agree with you.

And to me personally I only consider the very very top META. And then everyone below is just trying to make a cheeper non-meta version of that.

BUT since Crossout has multiple brackets, and people like to play at different levels it has become expectable to call lower PS versions META.

But this is also what causes confusion when using the word when it comes to this game.

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I think we’re talking about two different games here. In one game, at 5000 power score, you are having good games with a growl cab, 4 wheels and a bunch of fused Sledgehammers. It only takes a couple of nights of grinding to get a build like that. If that’s where you stay, the game is not pay to win.

If you want to win at high power scores it is very difficult without paying. The battlepasses offer fused gear that is way better than regular gear and some builds are only possible with fused gear. These are mostly builds that take all 16 points of energy such as triple Cyclone or triple Stillwind. If you don’t have a fused +power legendary cab and fully fused -power omni movement parts, forget about it or play a spider and have a slow ride.

For me, movement fusions are the most pay to win aspect of Crossout. A new player wonders why his ride is sluggish and thinks he’s just playing bad. He doesn’t realize that I have every engine and every cabin and every movement part fused for +power and he’s never going to match that without sinking some serious coin or time into the game.

The game isn’t competitive when new builds are slow, gooshy and unresponsive. New players should stick to wheels and make +power acquisition their highest priority if they want to compete at unlimited power scores.

The word “meta” does have different meanings. META, as an initialism, means “most effective X available”. In everyday gamer speech it means “most effective X”, depending on the game. Mostly (in most cases) it means most effective X available in the game, not “for each player’s current level of gear available”.

Because failed physics is the precursor of that issue.

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This is where I am, I have all cabins, all modules, all epic movement parts fused (except maybe tank tracks) And all the weapons I play are fused all the way from rare to relic. (I think I have around 50 fused legendary weapons and 7 fused relics, don’t even bother counting the rest their are so many)

So the point is, like you said, my builds are WAY better then someone that don’t have that stuff fused. I have builds that are impossible to make without fused items.

BUT that took me what? 6-7 years of my life and I have spent about $600 on the game over those years. So about $100 a year average. (This is the only game I play, so I don’t think that’s to high)

Many dudes get their first set of relics and think they have the same builds as we do. LOL :joy: not even close. They spent a year or two to get what they have and guess what, now you have to fuse everything!

Just my 10 hover Icarus VII set cost me a relic’s worth of coin. And that’s working every sale and fusion event.

The game is definitely pay to win. I’m a whale. So what? Crossout costs way less than my wife’s nail painting habit.

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Mobility is META, there’s a reason why players hate Hovers and Dogs. They’re the most mobile.

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I do hope she provides you with something to compensate for that :wink:

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