Crossout=pay and win

[Roopull]

@Kehich

Eh, they no fun. This is why I have Joule (weak) and Whirls… Whirlwinds…

I regret dumping my Joules long ago…

I don’t see much playstyle difference between the shortrange autocannons and short range machine guns or even shotguns (there is, but not terribly much) The storms have that long range which differentiates them. They’re like the Stillwind in that respect. So, if I wanna play peek-a-boo sniper, I’ll just play at that PS for now.

I’m really into variety, so getting another long range autocannon or another machine gun like weapon with short range (whirl) isn’t really a priority.

I’d probably get two whirlwinds before I’d get another Stillwind, but even that’s very unlikely. The jump in PS and the extra energy just aren’t worth it for the boost in performance.

I feel the same way about the jump between the mace & thunderbolt… Sinus & Specter… etc etc… You get a better weapon, sure, but then you’re nerfed 2 total energy when you have 2 weapons, 3 with 3. That makes your build either need a generator for the modules you’d run, or nerfs the weapons with rads/coolers. Plus, you’re jumping in PS. That’s why I honestly feel like I do as good with 4 special guns rather than 3 epics.

@RexLincoln

No matter what’s in your inventory, you will need to use it to exploit the game’s broken mechanics to win consistently. Otherwise, the game’s matchmaker will just slowly crank up the difficulty, and it takes an exploit to overcome that “feature.”

I gotta disagree with you… not that you’re entirely wrong. You certainly can win by exploiting things & building meta builds, but that’s clearly not the only way. I say that because I don’t build meta builds (meaning hover space boxes etc).

After toying with the EAB builds, you can win just by building smartly and yeah… getting good.

Most of what I’ve been playing for the last couple of weeks have been rare & special weapon shotgun & machine gun builds. No money needed. I’m paying attention to co-driver, synergies among parts, being patient in the battles, and using the best strategies I know how. I’ve barely touched any of my legendary inventory lately. The game kinda’ sucks up there at the moment… and I don’t remember the last time I drove hovers.

@RoughMonkey

But for me personally, in many cases, I would rather a full set of the rarity below then a non-complete set of the weapon above.

That’s good advice. I’ve been sharing it for a while & folks like that vanlife guy just won’t listen. A full set of fused sledgehammers will decimate some dude running ONE thunderbolt and a specter. I know he will… I keep doing it. And I suck.

@RexLincoln

My point is that the balance in this game is as bad as it’s ever been. Staying in your lane isn’t really possible, as the matchmaker doesn’t allow it, and constantly pushes you upward and into shark infested waters, I presume with the intent of selling you more goodies you think you need to survive, or to restrict you from harvesting more resources than the developers think you should be able to.

Funny, I suppose it can feel that way, but I keep finding myself intentionally pushing my builds more towards the rare & special rarity parts. I’m fleshing out my inventory down there, and having a blast.

@Poony4u

I know that once you get above 30, it’s tough to get into matches below 5k, because there just aren’t enough experienced players down there.

My lightest build I get matches fairly quickly with is something like 4850PS. Anything below that & no matches… I’m level 79 with the engineers. FWIW…

@RexLincoln

This game is a seal-clubber’s paradise (that looks very pay to win when you’re the seal), and never seems to be able to reel that in for very long before it’s back at it. I’ve seen it better. I think it’s pretty trashy right now, and these last several updates don’t address any of this games issues, but instead are piling them on.

I read stuff like that & wonder if we’re playing the same game.

@RoughMonkey

One of the biggest thing people do is build a little outside of their PS bracket and then get pissed they are getting matched with higher PS players.

OR… they build outside their PS bracket, and get trounced. It’s not necessarily b/c they’re going against higher PS builds, but b/c the higher the PS, the more complex the synergies among parts are.

With Rare parts, there are almost no synergies… slap a radiator on that machine gun build and you’re ready to go.

At Legendary… oh boy… it gets complicated. You have weapons that’ll spin faster with this cab, modules that’ll kick in at a certain speed, wheels that’ll reduce the distance require for that module to kick in, wheels that vary in effectiveness of their perk dependent on how many of those wheels you have etc.

So, if you go rolling into a match with your cool looking claws, arbiters, quantum cab, a couple of seals, and a radar on a 12k build, you get absolutely decimated by a dude with an almost identical build, but with a power unit & a trio of helios guns on top.

Why? Because his guns are being buffed by the cab, wheels, power unit & Hertz co-driver.

He may not be a better player, but he’s a better builder & he’s eating your lunch.

@Poony4u

I’ve tried everything to try to force myself into the top of a bracket, but I’ve seen no evidence this is actually possible.

My experience with this NOT being the rule is after running a SPECIFIC build very successfully for a long time. I think the MM learns… That’s when I was REPEATEDLY seeing matches with 5 to 7k PS spreads with me at the bottom of every match. I completely ditched those builds & replaced them with EAB builds from Charlie. It’s much better, now, but for how long? I’m being quite successful with them.

[Poony4u]

I understand what you’re saying, but I haven’t seen anything resembling a hard cutoff.

I’m also a bit confused by the numbers you list: are those supposed to be the actual brackets? Why would it go between X499 and Y699? If they do exist, wouldn’t they be more like X499 and Y999?

Anyway, you’ve got me curious. If you can come up with what you think the actual brackets are, I’ll do some testing next Monday and Tuesday.
I just see way too much variety in where my own build sits in relation to the other players. The only time I can see a real pattern is when I get locked into playing the same group over and over.

[RoughMonkey]

@RexLincoln

Sigma

I don’t normally do Reddit but I did go and read what he said.

I do agree with the engineer thing - kind of
And the group thing - also kind of

The % thing - not at all.

The main reason everything feels so random is because we have multiple rules guiding the match maker and all of those rules can be bent depending on the amount of people in que.

Ok - let’s talk about some of these things one at a time.

Engineer Level: I do think that the match maker does “try” to match people below level 30 engineer. But if you don’t have enough people to que at one time below 30 it’s going to fill in the blanks with other people. Everyone above level 30 is in the same player pool.

Groups: I do also feel like the match maker will “try” and match groups vs group… but also feels in the blanks if it can’t.

Then after that it is brackets - which it also will “try” to do - my above explanation explains why people of different PS levels randomly end up in the same match. (Brackets can explain that it is not random, it’s just the closest thing)

The main reason it will “try” is because the match maker wants games to come as fast as they can.

So it looks at the pool of people and then after it can’t find an exact match it picks the closest thing.

Sometimes the closest thing is not very close.

[RexLincoln]

@Roopull

After toying with the EAB builds, you can win just by building smartly and yeah… getting good.

I think he is using all of the Most Effective Techniques Available (META), and they do rely on this game’s departure from reality to achieve. That is to say he is taking into account, and exploiting this game’s broken features. Aluminum wouldn’t normally be considered an intuitive defense against cannon-fire. But in this game, reality is very selective.

I think the matchmaker is a bit loopy and contentious, but it’s the META that wins in this game; Builds that are essentially abominations derived from the broken nature of this Crossout universe, and function on the edge of, or even outside this game’s intended parameters.

[Poony4u]

I really wish the devs would confirm or deny our theories.
All I’ve come across is them saying that arena mode was their only attempt at skill-based matchmaking. I was shocked to hear that, but it opened my mind a bit and led me to do some testing, which is how I got to my current opinion.

So anyway, what do we think the actual brackets are? I want to do more detailed testing this week and see if I can prove or disprove the theory.
Even if the rules change when there’s fewer players, if hard brackets exist and I build right to that limit, then I should either be highest or lowest, right? If I end up in the middle a bunch, then there’s no real hard bracket, and just a sliding range like my current theory.

[RoughMonkey]

@Poony4u

I understand what you’re saying, but I haven’t seen anything resembling a hard cutoff.

Their is no hard cut off.

You would only see a hard cut-off if we had a population large enough to meet all of the rules of the match maker.

But since we do not have a large population the dev team has made the match maker in way that it will adjust.

It will “try” it’s best. Then when nothing fits the rule it bends the rule to the closest thing. The lower the population at that time the more it has to bend.

[Poony4u]

To be fair, Russian troops are trying a form of spaced armour on their tanks, but those “cope cages” don’t seem to be helping much against modern anti-tank weapons.

[Kehich]

@Roopull

I’m really into variety, so getting another long range autocannon or another machine gun like weapon with short range (whirl) isn’t really a priority.

Isn’t it better to have most of the things you would eventually want to try? That’s the reason I’m gonna make 2 more Toadfish. Even though it’s unlikely I’m ever gonna bring them out.

[Poony4u]

I thought you said if there aren’t enough players in my bracket, it would just bump me up into the next one?
If that’s not happening, then it’s what I described: a floating range of PS with no fixed boundaries.

There would be no point in fixed boundaries if the matchmaker has to invent new ones all the time.

If fixed brackets are still real, we should be able to prove they exist.

Anyway, tell me what you think the brackets are, and I’ll collect some data. Maybe the forum hive mind can figure it out.

Why do you think it’s not a sliding range like I proposed? It would be a lot simpler to implement, and also harder for players to take advantage of.

[RoughMonkey]

@Poony4u

If I end up in the middle a bunch, then there’s no real hard bracket, and just a sliding range like my current theory.

I don’t think it’s a sliding range.

I think the bracket numbers are hard set numbers, BUT… once it can’t make a match then it pull in the closest thing to save time.

Because the dev team has written the code in a way to make faster games a priority in a low population VS slower match making that is truly “hard set” brackets.

I hope I’m explaining it properly

[RoughMonkey]

@Poony4u

There would be no point in fixed boundaries if the matchmaker has to invent new ones all the time.

It’s not inventing new ones.

It’s doing it’s best to fit everyone in the right box.

Then when it can’t, it’s not changing the bracket, it’s pulling in the closest thing.

[RoughMonkey]

@Poony4u

Anyway, you’ve got me curious. If you can come up with what you think the actual brackets are, I’ll do some testing next Monday and Tuesday.

2499, 4699, 6499, 8999 <—— these are the lower brackets

I’ll have to look in game for the higher ones.

[Poony4u]

So are you saying that when there aren’t enough players in your bracket, it puts you in the next closest bracket?
Or that it just invents a while new bracket?
If it’s the former, then a build at the limit of a bracket should only appear in the right bracket, or one adjacent to it.
If it’s making whole new brackets, then there aren’t really brackets.

Anyway, hopefully I remember all this on Monday when I have time to do testing.
I am really hoping that I can see a pattern in the results, but my previous attempts failed.

[RoughMonkey]

@Poony4u

but those “cope cages” don’t seem to be helping much against modern anti-tank weapons.

But they do help stop drone attacks.

[RexLincoln]

This is me, last night, wondering why I’m not simply pushed to the next bracket, if that’s what the matchmaker does to solve long waits under the conditions of a low population.

Nearly the same build on this account (that screenshot is from my P2P account) was finding matches one after the next, without significant pause, often less than a minute. I switched accounts, and oops, suddenly no matches can be found.

I think that’s odd, and I don’t have an explanation, other than my attempts to rationalize it as I have. So, what’s the deal?

[RoughMonkey]

@Poony4u

So are you saying that when there aren’t enough players in your bracket, it puts you in the next closest bracket?

Correct Or brings people to your bracket to feel in the blanks.

This is why you can end up with a wide range of PS in the same match.

If you have someone trying to get in the lower bracket, but at the time they que their was not enough to make a match. So he might get bumped up.

Then you could have a guy in the higher bracket that ques and not have enough to fill a match and they get bumped down.

So your team might have 1 higher ps bracket guy, one lower PS bracket guy, and 2 from your bracket in the middle.

This would make a wide range of PS in the same match.

But when your playing in “Prime Time” at higher populations you will start to see less of that because the match maker will be able to place people in the right bracket instead of mixing them up.

I’m telling you man, we have multiple clans on Xbox that build right to the top edge of the bracket and when the population is good late at night those teams get rocking and roll kids non-stop because not only do they have fully fused builds and good percent of the time they are also they highest PS in the match.

[RoughMonkey]

@RexLincoln

This is me, last night, wondering why I’m not simply pushed to the next bracket, if that’s what the matchmaker does to solve long waits under the conditions of a low population.

what engineer level is that account?

[RoughMonkey]

@Poony4u

but my previous attempts failed.

There are a lot of variables that come up.

For example you might have a match at 10k and see a 2500ps player. But is that a team pulling in a lower PS player?

I know I have personally brought many low PS players into high PS brackets just so they could see the battles with high ps cars.

I know that is an exception but your going to have some variables that can be explained differently.

[RexLincoln]

@RoughMonkey

what engineer level is that account?

92 is what it reads where this one reads 6. Is that the issue? I mean they both appear to have surpassed level 30 according to the number at the top of the page, but this f2p account reads 6 under the debriefing profile picture. Once that number reaches 30, should I expect that account to be hexed too? I thought it already went through that.

[RoughMonkey]

@RexLincoln

Once that number reaches 30, should I expect that account to be hexed too?

Kind of.

Once you hit level 30 the game really really really wants you to play higher PS and it does not want you to play with the guys below engineer 30.

I have not been that low of level for a long time, but over the years we have had many people report how their game experience changed after level 30 and they still tried to play lower level.

Their is a conspiracy theory that this is done to make people want to break out the pocket book and buy some packs or coins to catch up.

I’m not sure about all that… but?