To be fair, at 18 k every weapon must hurt a lot.
Cleary you like tracks and cannons, a very slow combination in a game that’s faster by the year.
or you change the combination to something more devastating in the 18 k PS
or you keep that combination or even try new ones in a lower PS where things can be a bit more manageable .
or even try crazy things
Yeah, mastadons ans Mamoths the pinnacle of cannons but did you tried avengers?
Their survivability it’s like some SGs or MGs, you can mount up to 4 and with the right bits they can be fast firing just like the Junkbows and alike.
You complain about people go behind you, how about a couple of wasps/ lances/pyralids / mines/hook?
Now if only I could rotate my weapons to shoot the guy behind me… Guess I’ll die then
And yeah, unlike you guys I have actually tried this very thing you are suggesting, both in Clan Wars and in PvP, as well as having watched others try it. The outcome was, unsurprisingly, always the same except for at really low powerscores.
That leaves us with a conclusion: Tracks could actually use a buff.
Thing is, the heavy tracks in this game are not exactly fast. When you are not fast then you need to be tanky in order to survive. If you sacrifice half the durability of the build to gain any meaningful increase in acceleration then your top speed is still the limiting factor, but you also have another issue, the build is no longer tanky. You will not be able to get out of the danger quickly enough, when playing competitively that is. Quad porc, firedogs and Helicons will smash that thing to pieces.
Do you understand the difference between describing an issue so that it can be fixed vs. simply complaining?
I will definitely agree with you that tracks could use a buff, but I’m not convinced that the buff you suggest is the right way to go about it.
I would like to see them tinker with the handling of tracks more first. Better acceleration from stop would make a big difference for me, and I would also like to see turning radius less impacted by speed. I would also like there to be less of a delay before stationary rotation starts.
As far as people getting behind you, that is a problem for most builds, and is why I bring up the high reverse speed. When I play tracks, I spend a lot of the match driving backwards, just like you might with strafing parts. Your goal is to prevent them from getting behind you, and to punish them as they try to flank. I’m sure you know that, but sometimes it’s worth repeating.
This will make them better, but do we really want to make everything in this game agile or fast?
The heavy tracks were never supposed to be quick or snappy. Builds using them were meant to be outmaneuverable. That was their weakness to make up for being tanky and that’s also what used to make the track gameplay interesting because it really put an emphasis on teamwork and postioning to keep the more agile enemies from exploiting this weakness that tracks have.
But today the builds using these movement parts are not tanky compared to other builds, there lies the issue. So until they allow builds using them to be tanky people can never play them the way they were meant to be played and we already have a bunch of agile movement parts, do we really need more of that?
Most builds have the ability to strafe. Their whole build is essentially a turreted weapon in itself, they can move any direction while aiming wherever they want.
On tracks if you limit your firing angles and you want to shoot an enemy to the side of you then you actually have to change direction in order to shoot them. Needless to say it is very easy to get separated from your team while having to do that. Even when reversing at max. speed the enemy has no problems staying behind the build at all times because he has twice the top speed.
I rarely ever see anyone using limited firing angles with non-strafing movement parts and probably for a good reason.
I didn’t say they should be as fast and agile as wheels or hovers, but if tracks are going to have a low top speed, they should at least get more acceleration at the bottom end.
We all know that strafing parts have many advantages. You can’t use the same design principles on tanks. But that doesn’t mean it’s impossible to make them play better.
My resistance to tracks giving weapons more durability is that at the upper levels, so many weapons do so much damage that you will still be losing your guns if they are exposed, unless they give an insane amount of durability boost to weapons. And if they did do
that, you would immediately see people abusing tracks as armour on spiders.
That would no doubt become a massive issue if it were in the past, but after the last update they now added a new game mechanic that makes it so that spiders using tracks as armor go over tonnage really fast.
If we went by the solution of 10% extra durability for all weapons on the build for each installed track then a spider could gain 10 or 20% max, but it would have almost no cabin HP due to all the extra legs that need to be added due to tonnage issues, and so for them the means would probably not justify the ends.
Tracked builds will still lose weapons that is true but they will have the time to get a couple more shots in at the enemy before they get degunned, giving them at least a chance at fighting back. Really can’t see that being gamebreaking in any way.
They don’t have to be the best but without weapons there is just no way for tracks to ever be able to compete again. Back when tracks were good in CW our track clan actually had four branch clans that were all mostly full and 3 of which were actively earning uranium in Bronze or Silver with at least 3 tanks per team.
But then powercreep and mouse-aim happened and tracks got so bad that these clans just couldn’t survive anymore. Today only one of those clans remain, and it no longer competes in CW either.
Here is footage from one of our clan meetings in Bedlam … Good times
A valid complaint, and a invalid complaint are still complaints, if I had wanted to be insulting I would have bluntly called it whining but I didn’t want to be insulting because there are valid issues.
I’ve tried the hide the guns bit too it does save the guns a especially at lower PS but you do get shot in the butt too. On top of that unfortunately the fast rotation for tracks requires a complete stop and even then it still has a bit of lag till its able to rotate at speed. The only fun bit of hiding the guns like that on goliath tracks is you can drive upside down with inverted controls so long as the cab doesn’t poke above the top.
I actually remember you suggesting the same buff before on here. 25% bonus is relatively small even for big guns when looking at the dmg amounts put out from Destructor and Athena. It’s still not going to require much more shot wise from them to still de-gun it. The larger portion of the problem is still those weapons damage output and perks and the screwy heating mechanics of the game. My avalanche master build has an omamori attached to both the cab and the avalanche, it still gets removed fairly often by those two guns, even with the master perk actively healing everything. That’s the equiv of having 1900dur (400pt oma bonus) and healing 150/sec. (375pt is 25% of 1500pt) Then also take into account the dmg resistance bonus of 30% on reload that’s like adding another 450pts to it. That’s more then the fix you suggested nets. They really only need to take a second partial shot to wipe out all the gains.
I wouldn’t mind seeing large cannons get some resistance bonuses especially if they were mapped well to blast shielding vs mechanism portions of the guns. I mention mapping the bonus because you can tend to get away with larger bonuses that way similar to how the bastion cab only has resistances on the plow portion. I wouldn’t mind seeing the tracks get a little more love especially if it meant fixing their acceleration curves when encumbered. It’s still not going to fix the issue your experiencing though as the main issue isn’t the tracks, it’s with those weapons firing at your guns.
This is what I’m addressing when I’m taking about fixing the acceleration curves when encumbered. Tracks should be loosing less acceleration then they are currently up to full weight. They are built to carry a larger amount of weight slowly so that sacrifice your bringing up shouldn’t be happening as strongly until much later in the weighted zones. I don’t expect them to be fast but I do expect them to be able to be mobile and snappy for what little speed they do have.
I actually like doing it but it is harder to use. I played duel judges and prosecutors like that for a long time, the judges were the preferable pick for weight issues. You kind of jokingly get limited to the following play styles: run, stop and snipe, chase and fire, drive crazy trying to escape to turn and fire. Outside of that much of the time is: spending an unbelievable amount of time trying wiggle into firing positions, only to repeat the process because you teammate just bumped into you. If I had more garage slots I’d still be playing those builds occasionally.
The only fixed angle guns I could get to work on tracks are SGs and MGs. But both work better than you might think (and not just the obvious goblin/gremlin sandwich).
bots are stupidly accurate to even while moving, they can land a perfect shot even if you hit them with a toadfish at 20 times the impulse and they are spinning like a beyblade they can still hit you with pinpoint accuracy. one enemy came over the hill, made a random shot and knocked off my fortune… and it wasnt even aiming for me!! it made a direct right in the middle shot, while moving and its front end was coming back down from a hill. thats just cheating at that point. bots now aim for weapons to, with their pinpoint accuracy that just makes it infuriating.
porcs smash anything to pieces, they are mines and do the most raw damage of anything in the game. 5 of these things and well… goodbye jojo!
flamethrower builds are a bit broken to. anything fire related is very overpowered and firebug blight is by far the most broken. if your a heavy build and get hit by an incinerator and get taken out then thats your fault for being slow. but firebugs just need to face hug you and its all over.
heres the thing.
light tracks like sleipnirs, small tracks and hardened tracks are not meant to be tanky. they are meant to be agile and quick with lower durability.
things like armored tracks and tank tracks are a bit slower but are supposed to be more tanky and are able to tank more damage at the cost of speed and size.
goliaths on the other hand are the biggest tracks and are meant to be tanky while being able to absorb damage. however they come at a major cost of being extremely slow. goliaths are the slowest track in the game and NEED that high durability to be able to survive. i agree that the perk for them isnt all that useful. giving a small durability boost to things attached to the goliaths isnt that much of a boost. 10% might me alot to things like mammoths or mastodons but whos going to attack something that big to a goliath? its not reliable or really doable.
omnis, legs and hovers are a major counter to goliaths because of their poor turn speed and speed in general. most builds can just run circles around the goliath user and knock off parts bit by bit till hes finished.
omnis are in general the most broken though. ive said it before, they have the speed of a wheel, maneuverability of legs, and have the power of a cohort being able to move builds even with a light cabin. my cohort, mammoth, mastodon, apollo build can be moved by that like its made of cardboard. they need to be nerfed.
gerridas are fast and irritating to deal with. i also get stuck on them all the damn time when someone drives by me…
The entire side of the goliath should actually have attachment points on it. They could stratify what part types get what bonus to those attachment points if they really wanted to. Then structure parts could get more then 10%. I don’t think it will help a lot though as most of the structure parts don’t have that much durability anyway outside of bumpers and few larger structure parts.
take Machinist then.
For every 1000 points of armored vehicle’s durability increases the durability of the weapons mounted on the cabin by 10%. Maximum bonus is 35%.
The perk still works if you side mount your guns, but of course that is less useful when not using strafing parts.
I usually add an omamori or averter to add more durability on top of the machinist perk when top mounting on machinist, but that works better with something like a kaiju.
My 6 tracker is a kaiju machinist build, It brings the kaiju up to mammoth area durability but it does still get taken off occasionally. I normally blame it on myself though for allowing players with high DPS weapons getting close enough to do so. Outside of that I still have just enough acceleration to dodge porcs if they are not CQC fired. Every bit of movement helps if I can land a hit by moving just a little onto the cab rather then the weapon I normally do so.
If the Aegis was cheaper to run energy wise. I would probably try to run one and I do think that would help a bit.
I’ve refused going up to the weapons @gid-64419979 is using mostly because their hitbox is so ridiculously large. There are times when the negatives of a combo out weights the perks. This is true to staying current even if previously they worked.
The side mounts work better for the pancake style cannons where you can wedge them between the tracks and cab. There are some lower ps range builds that do this with the bastion cab and goliath and it makes it really hard to take off the cannons with out first removing a track. The down side to this is you have to become the turret, which entails that you come to a complete stop each time. With the way the acceleration curve works with tracks right now that doesn’t work very well, especially with the larger builds. It takes too long to get moving again.
They really just have to bite the bullet and try to 3 factor balance it between: (Nerf the two weapons a little, Give resistance to the large cannons, Improve mobility for the large tracks.) Doing the 3 together lets them be smaller changes to each individual aspect.
