Growl need a nerf (sorry but we all know it does)

Posted February 3 (edited)

To the attention of players and devs

So Growl is the most popular rare cabin, it’s small, fast, versatile and most important, it has 11 energy points. That cause other rare cabs to be less picked, or to need to add a generator to get same amount of energy than Growl, for more PS anyway.

  • Light cabins from other rarities (special, epic, legendary) have the same amount of energy points than normal cabins, only Growl from rare cabins doesn’t (and Duster from common cabins).
  • Light cabins from other rarities (special, epic, legendary) have more PS than medium cabins from their rarity only Growl from rare cabins doesn’t (and Duster from common cabins).

So not only Growl has more energy, but also has no PS increase, which is a double bonus compared to light cabins from other rarities.

Duster could deserve a nerf too but this cab is not in the same situation than Growl because Duster is expensive and not craftable.

If we increase Growl’s PS from 750 to let’s say 850 or 900 (+100/150PS, which scale with the current +200 PS on light special cabins and +300 on light epic/legendary cabins):

  • Growl will be more balanced, and medium rare cabins (specially cheap/free cabins like Wyvern and Bear) will have a situational advantage compared to Growl.
  • Bat will be a better upgrade to Growl, as currently Bat has slightly bigger stats and size but way bigger PS than Growl. Bat currently is not worth the PS increase. With Growl getting 850 or 900 PS, that gap is diminished and Bat can be a bit more balanced and popular.
  • Sealclubbing, which is also usually made with Growl (hovers, goliath sandwich, wheeled parsers, etc), will be dis-favored.
  • There won’t be unwanted side-effects like other nerfs can have (existing builds won’t technically need changes like a mass limit or tonnage nerf would require).

I’m a Growl user/lover and I think many of us are at 4000-6000PS, but let’s be honest, this cab is not balanced and a PS increase is an acceptable nerf for us. And for devs it’s indeed simple to implement.


Exporting this topic from the old forum, as it is still a current problem, with a apparently viable solution. I have today brought this suggestion to developers with the help of the dedicated form.

Everyone uses Growl in that PS range. Simply too good. The energy means extra rad or cooler. Especially now that rads and coolers got the PS raise. It’s a big deal to not need the epic generator and extra PS raise.
Then add the small frame of the cabin that is easy to build around.
Then add the speed which is also a big deal.

It’s got everything low PS needs.

I am less and less about nerfing things, and more into buffing other things that are lacking in performance.
But yeah. Growl needs to be put in it’s place.

And I won’t ever pass the opportunity to say -
Buff Trucker.
It’s not so bad but 9 energy on Trucker that is big and slow as well, compared to 11 on Growl that is small and fast, and it’s a no contest in the PS range where crafts are not oversized and tonnage is not as important.

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If you buff 10 items when one is too good, and then after some time we notice that one of the 10 buffed item is now too good, you’ll buff the other 10 items again, and so on… And at the end you’ll have 13 energy rare cabs and Trucker going at 120 km/h and Wyvern having a flying perk and the game will still not be balanced. So you should straight away stop thinking about constantly buffing everything when only one thing is over-performing, because it’s not solving the situation by far. Something will always need adjustment, specially when content is regularly added.

I know. They won’t buff 10 items just because the eleventh is too strong.
The problem is they won’t even buff the worst one. (Trucker in this case, or things like Meatgrinders and on)…

Balance in a game like this is a wild dream, never to be.
But at least they could pay attention to such a big disparity between items of the same rarity and PS, that we have now. And close that gap a bit.

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Devs do buff and nerfs frequently, for example they recently buffed under-performing items like Stillwind, arguments, synthesis, and they nerfed over performing items like Seals, Borers, Blight, Dracos, etc. Devs can’t do everything at once but they are working on balance.

Now to come back to topic, I think putting Growl from 750 PS to 900 PS would already be a positive and reasonable change, as Growl basically has a free Big G included (150 PS)

I think, if developers will decrease Growl’s energy to 10, it should have really strong engine power buff, and may be - added some basic HPs. Because of at current state, 10-EP Growl will be completely outclassed by Wyvern.

Also, all Special cabins need such buff right now.

Please, just leave it alone. It’s the only cab available to aces that isn’t garbage. Seal clubbing is from players using expensive movement parts and fancy guns aces don’t have access to, not the Growl.
Nerfing the Duster is insane. They could just delete that cab and nobody would notice.


That’s not a massive boon to the growl over the other light cabins. The growl is so popular because it’s one of a few rare cabins.

A few hundred PS won’t make the growl any weaker. What would be other rare cabins such as the special cabins being reduced back to being rares again.

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Another strategy would be to give every rare cabin except for Growl an extra energy point, and also buff all the special cabins a bit, so that they’re actually a step up.

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They’re gonna have to nerf the Growl Cabin pretty hard to make players choose Wyvern or Trucker.

The proposed Torque idea update could’ve fixed the idea. I remember seeing that Growl would’ve only had 5 wheels. But that update never saw the light of day.


I’m still hoping the torque update happens at some point.
I’m really looking forward to new ways to customize the handling and acceleration of my builds, and it seemed like it was going to make heavy builds a lot more fun to play.

I never play my growl, but I do play my wyvern and trucker occasionally, because I got some cool CKs for them (and because growl feels unfair/I like a challenge).

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If everybody has one in their inventory, and I don’t know why they wouldn’t (it’s cheap, craftable), I can’t see how it would be unfair.

I got another Jockey the other day. That one’s pretty challenging to kill with in PVP. It happens though, but I haven’t found anything that really synergizes with that cab well. It’s not very popular, but I think it’s got style, so I got it to do easy raids with for fun (it was a bargain buy).
I should try to build something serious with it…well as serious as I get about that stuff. If I can take two kills in a match, I’m good. Three and I’m grinning.

This game has some issues, but the growl isn’t one of them, IMO.

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It’s unfair to anyone at that PS who doesn’t want to use the same cabin over and over that everyone else uses.
It became a boring toaster look-a-like cabin and it’s stale. Been a year now since the last time I saw anyone use a trucker or wyvern in pvp. It’s just growl growl growl.

It feels forced on players.
It’s like living in an all you can eat, but only one single dish is chicken drums while everything else is food made of paper mache. After a while you will get sick of eating and smelling chicken drums and sick of everyone around you consuming chicken drums only.

I know that MANY players don’t care about looks or about playing something different. And they only care about if it’s practical or not. To me that stops being a fun game and becomes a tasteless chore. BUT, it’s their right to do so. Those players care not if it’s one cabin that’s the go to cabin compared to the rest, and that’s perfectly fine, but that’s not a what a fun game is to many others.

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There’s Bear and Wyvern that are free/unexpensive, and they aren’t picked as much. 4-6K PS is 80% Growls. And that’s because of the +1 energy point.

Increasing Growl’s PS to 900PS is a good compromise, because Growl players can play as usual at a little higher PS, while players that don’t need this extra energy point or simply want to reduce their PS can take a cab like Bear and Wyvern and save the PS of a Big G (150 PS)

Decreasing Growl’s energy to 10 would be extremely unpopular and would break ALL the Growl’s build ever made in exhibition. And yes Wyvern would probably be the most used rare cab, and that would be moving a popularity problem to another cab.

If we do that, Wyvern would be 11 energy and would probably be the “next Growl”, which we don’t want. We would see Wyvern everywhere the way we see Growls everywhere right now

The torque idea might take a long time to come, if never…

The problem with Growl isn’t the unfairness I think, but just how it kills the rare cab variety. And if you argue it doesn’t, just play few games at 5000 PS and you shouldn’t be able to denied it

No. That’s because the bear is literally just a rare guerilla at a massively higher price and the wyvern is a cabin that focuses on stats rather than energy (The growl’s stats are bad other it’s energy. If you’re building more than just the smallest of builds you’ll quickly outgrow the stats of the growl.) which in lower PSs isn’t a massive concern (It’s the problem with the trucker, the cabin isn’t bad but it’s a heavy cabin intended for use at a PS where heavy builds don’t exist. At later points it’s entirely overshadowed by better cabins.).

150 PS is going to do literally nothing. The MMing looks in the ranges of thousands at the start of MMing, not the hundreds.

I will, if the matchmaker will let me. I’ll try to keep an open mind, but to me nerfing the only good blue cab will make the aces life miserable.
The Growl is an important and versatile cab (convenient size, fast, energetic) that gives new players an improved degree of survivability at a wider range of power-scores. Once they earn it they can participate more successfully in a wider range of this game’s features. Some resources, raids, events and brawls are dominated by veterans with powerful gear the ace or free-player doesn’t have access too. The Growl gives Aces a broader and better gaming experience earlier in the game IMO. Trying to compete in this game as an ace, without the Growl’s outstanding characteristics would be awful, I think. That’s why nobody does it.

I’d go along with nerfing the Growl’s energy to 10, if they buffed the Bat’s energy to 11, essentially making the Bat the new Growl, but further down the game’s time-line, with less convenient size and shape, and a much higher power-score.
Buff the Bat, if you nerf the Growl, and I think you guys might be on to something.

I’d say buff the special cabs first, and then we’ll see. Poor cabs have been complete trash since they became cyan :pensive:


So, I did…I’m not really feeling it, dude. I took a Bear and then a Jockey (just to clown this issue) out at 4-5K and I was not overwhelmed by Growls, and I don’t think I used clever tricks to do it. Team work and fancy movement parts did it for me.

I can’t get into matches under 4K very easily. I just sit in the lobby all day, so I’m not going there.

There were some Aggressive players in Growls, true. I have video of me rolling one across the dirt with my Judges too. Not really a problem, and it wasn’t what everybody else was using either. It’s not overwhelming.
If I was seriously trying to farm at 4-5K (it was fun) I’d probably put more thought into my builds here, and come up with even better results, maybe. Maybe not.
Point is, I was not at all overwhelmed by overbearing Growl builds.

I think the game is running tip top, presently. I don’t know how long that will last, but right now the only thing wrong with this game is not enough people are playing it, IMO. Now that all that shotgun wedge stuff has been dialed back, I think things are good, and I’m having fun with all sorts of play-styles and at various power-scores.

One of the few issues I saw down low at 5K was that Truckers found a pretty solid gig with Borers that works really well. Maybe too well. IDK. It’s sort of an odd choice for melee, but it works good for a lot of kids. I saw lots of that. Good for those guys, I guess. It’s more terrifying than any growl build I saw out there and typically had impressive body counts too…but even that was handled with the Big-Feets and the Junkbows mounted high for popping cabs…on a Jockey, no less. It’s not a great cab, but it sure is pretty.

Game’s fine. Leave it alone. Maybe buff the Bat.

Bear is free with morgenstein free pack, Guerilla has the energy and speed of Docker and the mass limit and tonnage close to the Sprinter, so not really comparable with Bear aside the shape.

And you agree with me that Wyvern is lacking the extra energy point of growl, which makes the reason we see tons of this light cabin in 5-6K PS.

Growl is picked more than other cabins because we all prefer the 11th energy point than the extra mass limit and tonnage, that´s as simple as that. We take the energy and workaround the small stats.

Bat is already at 11 energy and most of the playerbase will heavily protest about Growl being 10 energy. As I said, it would break all the growl builds in exhibition ever made. Veteran as well as new players use this cab, that would cause a lot of unhappyness, regardless if it´s fair or not…

@3736931 if you say that the majority of cabs in low ins´t Growl then there´s nothing more I can say to you on this subject. What cab do you see the most then at 4-6K PS ? And notice that you´re the only one so far saying otherwise about Growl´s popularity.

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