Guns with too big of downsides

Does anyone else feel like too many guns suffer from a kind of forced suckiness, where there are huge glaring downsides to some guns, but there is nothing in return for those artificial sucky factors

Like for a simplified example Phoenix, it takes a while to do any damage, and that can be nullified because they can be shot off, and usually will and not even by direct fire but general spray and pray weapon spam that’s everywhere. But they do not deliver so much damage per shot that having that downside seems fair


There’s no shortage of weapons I don’t like in the game but it’s not because I think it’s forced suckiness with one exception that does dmg to yourself.

I will agree other weapons do have some counters and drawbacks to them too.

The sucky weapons are my favourites, because no one plays them, so I feel like a special snowflake when I run them.
Also, I enjoy being able to increase my “difficulty level” by choosing to use those items when I feel the need to be challenged.
I’m ok with MGs and SGs being easy.

Avalanche is a giant pile of junk. It has literally nothing for it. Close to worst projectile speed, probably the worst reload, highest energy cost in the game, biggest hitbox, awfully slow to traverse or focus, only weapon in the game to boost self damage, a boring durability perk. What do you get for that?

200 blast damage and subpar survivability. :partying_face:

And I have the god-rolled Ava from the BP :joy:

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Honestly if I was redoing the avalanche It would be one of the few cannons I’d apply distance numbers (ranger finding) to in the scope view. I think that would make it a lot easier to learn to use. You can shoot a lot further with it then people suspect but it’s really hard to align those shots.

I’d in that the drop severity of it is so bad that you have to be on a second floor basically to make it accurate from frame level. Which is way higher then mounting it on top of a cab.

I agree and will gladly play Snowfalls and take long range shots with them. Similar travel time and ballistic trajectory, but the upsides make it worth the ammo/time. Better damage, better reload speed, better traverse speed and accuracy… Not Ava tho, using it as a mortar is massively not worth it. 200 blast damage. And I must stress that I’m using the +25% projectile speed one. I can barely imagine how god awful and useless the unfused weapon is.

Ava needs a Yokai-like perk, or less pathetic blast damage before being any good at mortaring things.

Same reasons that OP gave for Phoenix tbh… Drawbacks >>> Advantages IMO, for both weapons. if they actually dealt some really good damage to compensate, I’d be okay with that… But half the weapons in the game hurt more and don’t make you deal with tons of awful cons.

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Are you on PC? If you are drop by my garage… I have these rings set up in the far rear that I like to practice shoot through with the avalanche. If not I can snag a screen cap of it. I agree it’s really similar. You actually have a better chance of hitting with the snowfalls. Usage is really situational I mostly use it for the challenge 40 parts in a match with a cannon if it’s mission only. I’m using the BP one too.

It would actually be really cool if it was a fire puddle weapon with a cone projection on it’s explosion.

I know it has issues but it can be kind of fun if you really want something hard to learn. It’s really satisfying when you land a good shot with it.

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My usual “practice” shot with ballistic weapons is Broken Arrow, from one tunnel to the other. It’s cool that you bothered to set up targets in your garage… Sounds like something I should try to do :p. You can get surprisingly precise with Ava and Snowfalls and some practice :wink:

I’ll also add Pulsar to the list because I loved playing them when they were balanced (never touched the OP release ones).
It has exactly one single downside, but it’s a really bad one for a weapon: it deals no damage. It’s impressive how wimpy they are after so many nerfs. Fatmans and Quasars are legitimately better damage options :skull:

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It’s actually hard, that’s why I was saying adding a rangefinder value might be easier. They could then also add a 1en module in to extend the ability to other weapons. I set them up to try to nail shots from one side of the crater map to the other. It takes more than just the practice though… Getting attacked while doing it is a different can of worms.

I have tunnels and arches set up to drive and fly through too. I blew through a lot of resources setting it up lol… I’d so multi floor it if they gave me more points to use. It still has a workable range too.

I’m getting use to using a single upgraded fatman as a weapon (I’m not fond of the drop on those either the p-speed upgrade helps), I do love my Quasar/Atom/Hadron combo though those even though they are slow are so damn accurate. It’s one of the reasons I don’t play the av so much is I have so many better options.

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I don’t find Avalanche that weak, but agree that it’s not very useful at long range.
I generally played it on a fast omniwheel/deadman build, and tried to keep the PS as low as I could.

I’m sure it’s not nearly as effective in high PS, and I could never get it to work on slower builds. But on a fast build with the extra reload buff it’s quite playable. You just have to remember to shoot before you get within the blast zone, and don’t try to use it like flamethrowers.

I’m not sure what it is, but Avalanche has very impressive bullet damage that allows it to drill into builds prior to exploding. That makes it hit pretty hard if you make the right shot. I’m not saying its not bad, I’m just saying that the bullet damage drill effect is the main selling point for Avalanche.


Pulsar has no bullet damage to punch into builds. Spaced armor just eats it alive. When I run into a Pulsar build, I can just ignore it as if it wasn’t there.

When I used to play Pulsar, all I could think was “Where’s my Waltzs?” and “What is this trash?” Waltz’s hit literally twice as hard as Pulsars, but in exchange, they reload almost twice as fast.

Here’s a video I made showing my interaction with a Pulsar, He jumps me and makes a perfect shot point blank in the center of my build for 80 damage. I shoot him with a Helicon volley for 1100 damage (Pre buff :slight_smile: ), he shoots back and apparently knocks off a buggy floor for 10 damage, then I blow up his cab with the next volley. This is how every Pulsar game goes. Pulsar is a slow cannon with no bullet damage that is completely outclassed by Assembler and every rocket, including:


Especially Waltz and Helicon.

All of those weapons have multiple explosions that drill into builds so they don’t get shut down by spaced armor. They all hit harder and they all reload faster. Pulsar is the worst. Avalanche is better. Assembler is better Pyralid is better. Enough said.

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Stagger the firing for about 0.5 - 0.9 seconds which is fairly normal for update speeds. The second shot will continue through.

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Yeah, it’s the massive bullet damage that makes it useable. It will just power through a lot of spaced armour before detonating. Penetrates better than executioners for sure.

@DarthStall It’s sad because Pulsar used to be powerful precisely because it melted spaced armor with its huge radius. Well, that, and it was like ultra light and stupidly tough on release. Energy damage used to be a real pls too, but now, with Grizzly, Oma and armor parts, everything has energy resist one way or another.

I think Pulsar would play better and have more of a unique role if it reloaded a bit faster, tbh. It’s a brawling weapon at heart, and DPS > burst damage there. If Mammoths can get 10% faster reload, surely Pulsar can, too.


Right. Mammoths should be buffed into the pretty good category with 10 percent reload, and Tsunamis should be buffed into the “not the worst” category with a 13 percent reload buff. What about Pulsar?

If you can get past the spaced armor issue, it does nice damage with its blast radius. Give it a second off its reload.


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Avalanche at long range would not be hard if it wasn’t for hovers and omni directional parts.

If a vehicle has wheels and tracks and they moving in a specific direction, it is nothing to figure out where to lob the shell to get a hit.

But if a vehicle can move in any direction at any time, it takes a fair bit of luck and guessing where they’ll be.

That’s their least of issues lol…