Making Jotun something else

Discussion
1

After a multitude of matches with the Jotun Cryo Weapon i have concluded that it is basically just a worse Incinerator.
I think it deserves more than that, not that it should be a better incinerator, but rather a different type of Artillery weapon.

So, here’s my idea.

  1. I think the freezing rate should be kept the same to keep that part of its support role, however.
  2. Half the tick damage of the freeze puddle. Keep the slowing perk but reduce its damage due to the following suggestion.
  3. Increase its blast damage and radius by a factor of like 6.
    Currently a single Jotun deals 40 blast damage, 2 of them deal 80. Considering this weapon effectively launches a big ol bomb on people, its a given i would want a direct hit to be rewarded.
    I think such a damage increase would be fitting given its incredibly long reload time and i think it would be more fitting of the weapon itself instead of making it the slightly different but overall worse cold Incinerator fated to be another forgotten support weapon.

Another minor thing i was hoping it would be was a delayed trigger mechanic as the Devblog which revealed the Jotun described it being working “by sending mines right under their wheels”. So maybe making the projectile, upon missing an enemy, detonate one second or two after hitting the ground would open up some interesting play on tighter maps with narrow corridors. But thats just a suggestion.

All in all, i want the weapon to be something else, not just an incinerator 2.0 which will lead to it being forgotten in due time.

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2

Worse? If you only look at raw damage then I think that’s a pretty sad and narrow outlook.

They are way smaller with more HP and a full 360 rotation. Cryo damage removes resistances instead of just raw damage and is designed to be a more team orientated weapon more so than Incinerators.

It already is, you just don’t like it.

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3

I assume you are Lexi from reddit, since you have made an identical comment to his.

As stated in my reddit comment, crossout isn’t really a team based game. Your team will usually do their own thing, and, considering cryo is a new effect, they won’t even know what it does, so it’s support potential is wasted.

But, let’s say you get a few people together on dicord, and they all use double cyclone spiders. You hit an enemy build with Jotun, effectively nullifying it’s damage resists. Let’s say the build is made entirely out of Steppenwolf parts (35% explosion resist, 15% bullet resist), so the build normally would recieve around half of the damage. With cryo debuff, it’ll recieve normal damage (so, double of what it would normally recieve). With heating, you just double the damage enemies recieve, resulting in the enemy recieving the same damage as with cryo.

Now, tests. (tested on a +dura fuzed whirlwind attached to omamori) 20 damage right after cryo puddle expires from a +5% damage whirlwind, 20 damage from an unfuzed whirlwind right after incinerator puddle expires, so, the results are just about the same. No additional damage bonuses or resists since the build I tested it on had no co-driver, and the build with incin and whirlwind I took from the exhibition had growl and also no co-driver.

So, Jotun, in the end, is just a worse incin, since the damage bonus goes down if enemy’s parts have no resists. Sure, at higher PS there are more sources of reists, such as cohort, but in most cases heating will result in higher bonus to damage.

Jotun pros: slow down, cryo will boost narwhal’s damage, 360* rotation, superior durability. Jotun cons: lower DPS from the weapon itself, lower dmg bonus from the thermal effect on average, cannot be buried under armor like incin. Conclusion: jotun is just a worse incin. I guess it could be used to assist your melee/shotgun/cryoflamer teammates by slowing down enemies?

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I think the Jotun is pretty balanced, sure it does less damage than the incinerator but in exchange it turns around and is a bit more agile than the incis, allowing builds to be more agile than incinerator builds in general are

Incinerators are more like a support weapon with the option to actually kill someone in exchange of weapon rotation and agility of use, while the Jotun has those but exchanges the damage for them and is far more rooted as a pure support build and weapon only rather than trying to actually kill off enemies. Comparing them to the incinerators is a bit wrong as Incis are a support/attack weapon and Jotuns are full on support.

It’s better to consider a Jotun build as a full trombone build rather than an incinerator build, or a double acari build. 100% support but you aren’t going to be able to properly engage an enemy by yourself like the incinerators would allow

Basically it offers an incinerator-like but slightly different gameplay style and build use

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Да, I literally copy pasted because I don’t like repeating myself.

it is, just because most are bad at it or don’t try doesn’t make it less of a team game.

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Trying it out from exhibition builds in my garage where damage seems to be slightly more intense . It is definitely a niche weapon. As we all know 3 of a kind beats a pair . It is definately something that can be used as a nuisance to the enemy being a support weapon. I believe the Developers have hit a home run on balance. Great job guys! And that goes for all of the new weapons. Now the new cloak with the fuel cell is another topic I would love to illiterate on but refuse to highjack this thread.

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It has two things the incin doesn’t: range and trajectory. It can fire further and over higher obstacles. And it should detonate on impact. It’s a mortar, not a minelayer.

A MORTAR

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How so?

Cloud vs Puddle are two very different things I am sure I will figure out how to maximize.

Jotun reduces damage of weapons to 25% while also having a slowing effect. With area of effect damage that has an increased hit box height over puddles.

Incinerator increases damage taken by 100% with area of effect damage.

I will never play dual incy’s nor dual Jotun’s. See you out there.

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9

Jotun’s “cloud” is functionally identical to incin’s puddle. It’s just a particle change.

You are confusing 2 weapons. The cryoflamer reduces the damage by 25%, the Jotun slows down enemies. The cryo effect doesn’t slow down enemies, it removes resists (even omamori).

The Jotun’s cloud’s area is identical (or close to) incin’s puddle’s

So, just a worse (dps and support potential wise) incin. At least it offers greater mobility.

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10

I haven’t played the new weapon yet, but I did play a few invasion matches with a teammate who had it, and it is different than incinerator (which I was using for that mode).
It actually seemed more effective against leviathans, especially when I hit them with my Acari after my teammate froze them.
Think of it this way: incinerator targets and weakens the entire build, while this new thing specifically weakens the harder to destroy parts. Remember, that means not only plows and heavy armour, but also frames and pass through parts.
In practice, this means you can deframe enemies much easier, as well as remove guns that aren’t attached to the cabin.
The slowing effect is also a really nice bonus against large heavy targets.

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That’s about it, really. There is not much to Jotun than that.

At least its fun…

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I’m not sure why you don’t see that as a big thing?

Deframing is game over for the victim, so that is huge. And most meta builds depend heavily on pass through parts in order to tank huge amounts of damage while remaining mobile. The ability to nullify damage resist is a big deal!

Not to mention that it’s an effective counter to omamori, which many people blame for the current horseshoe DPS meta.

13

Also consider that both the cryoflamer and the narwal applies cryo, so you will rarely see Jotun used against builds that heavily rely on passthrough parts, since they are mostly found on higher PS.

Like most epics, Jotun is best played at 8-9k PS. where, at most, you’ll see an MG hover with a couple pass-through parts, and even against those hovers, you will apply 25% of cryo maximum, since they’ll quickly fly out of the puddle.

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Has anyone tried an Incinerator / Jotun build to see what kind of living hell that combo may produce?

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It’s hard to predict how things will go. I don’t see incinerators much in PVP anymore either, but there was a time when you’d see several in every match, and they were greatly feared by anyone using a gas generator.
These days I mostly see and use incinerators against leviathans in Invasion, and in that context this new toy should work quite well.

I’m not going to predict whether it will find a significant roll in PVP, because I’ve been surprised enough times by now to know these things don’t always go how you expect. So far I’m already seeing it on PVP a fair amount, and it just came out yesterday. The slow down effect is super annoying, which makes me believe it will be more effective in PVP than incinerator currently is. Also, the fact that it is turreted means it can be used in a lot of other ways than incinerators are.

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It sounded like the devs said that heat and cryo debuffs cancel each other out,

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17

After posting this DOH! I went to the exhibition and yes there are some to test. But as you mentioned it did cancel each other out. Still does some damage but not as glorious as I had hoped for.

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I think the perks don’t cancel out, but the debuff does. A bit disappointing, but I get the logic behind it. And they would probably be too strong if they stacked.

I have a feeling that cryo may combine best with electric damage. I have a few ideas I need to test.

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19

I just love you’re trying to play two different weapons with two different roles as the same thing because they have the same aim mechanic. The mandrake has a trajectory assist and flame puddle, why aren’t you trying to play them like an incinerator?

This argument is based on you wanting another cool META weapon, God forbid a weapon is balanced.

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Never said I want another cool meta weapon. What I want is something that is not another support weapon that will be left forgotten until it gets buffed so much it becomes OP, and then consequentely gets nerfed into the ground. I want it to be something similar to Yokai in terms of power and skill requirement, instead of an easier-to-aim incinerator.