saying that everyone doesnt play bricks is nothing more than an admission that you do not play the game at all

They may play at another powerscore, there is much less brickage at 9k or so… people still like their melee, fire and hover cancer but damn 13k and above a brick just wins 95% of encounters and you see them a lot

there are plenty bricks occasionally even with like an 11k build, enough to recognize the massive problem

I played around 13kPS this week to try to find these bricks you hate so much. I saw some, but they were hardly the majority. Usually a couple on each team, which seems pretty balanced to me.

Yes, I saw some each match, but I also saw more spiders and hovers. I actually saw a lot of track builds too.

This might be different on your platform, or it could even be a region thing. It might also be because most of my playtime is during the day on Mondays and Tuesdays. I do think I saw more bricks when I logged in for a bit on the weekend. Nevertheless, I saw a good variety of builds even that night.

Show me some screenshots of these matches where most of the builds are bricks, I would love to be proven wrong.

The only bricks that seem particularly strong are the shotgun bricks, and they have been a threat in the past as well. I don’t call them dogs, but I guess you could argue they play the same role. That is easily dealt with by nerfing a couple shotguns. They may not even need to do that if they use the new energy system to make hammerfalls and breakers cost more energy points.

As far as fire dogs go, all the ones I saw were still on blight, so I don’t think they count as bricks. They also haven’t really changed much with the new items. I’m sure there are some people succeeding with heavy fire dogs (especially in CW), but it doesn’t seem to be a big trend in PVP yet. Still seeing green flames every time I encounter flamethrowers.

some amount of games i have played after reading your comment. screenshotted unique players with bricks, excluding many dog builds

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I didn’t ask for screenshots of bricks (I already said I was seeing on average a couple per team).
I was looking for evidence that bricks are the majority of builds. So like a screenshot of the beginning of a match, showing your team being mostly bricks.

Random shots of bricks you’ve seen doesn’t tell us anything about whether they are the majority of builds.

People used to claim their matches were all hovers too, but I always saw a lot more diversity in my matches. Came to realize what they really meant is that they were getting killed by hovers most often, not that everyone was playing hovers. I am starting to suspect that’s what is going on here too.

No, bricks are obviously not a “majority of all builds”. But bricks are in every single match, and if multiple teammates dont shift their attention to a brick, at least one teammate is guaranteed to die. Bricks are fast, tanky as fuck, high damage, turn 180 degrees on the spot at full speed, and have unstrippable weapons. You dont see the issue? I would say i am way above average when it comes to playing hover cannon, so why should it take so much effort and tryharding even for me to beat some random goober with 200 hrs on the game with a brick?
Bricks very simply outclass a vast majority of builds. I dont know how you still dont get that concept.

Hey, you were the one saying they were “everywhere”, and that’s all I was addressing.
Are they stronger now than they were six months ago? Of course!
But you literally said that everyone is playing them, which is not even close to being true.

But let’s be real, if they were as unbeatable as you claim, you would see more than a couple per team. As long as they are not the majority of builds, I don’t see a huge problem.

And while you might be as good at playing hover cannons as you say, I see lots of people playing hover cannons who do not appear to be struggling in the same way you are. Skill is definitely a factor, but I suspect a bigger factor is your unwillingness to adapt and experiment when faced with a newish threat. You’ve made it pretty clear that you don’t think you should have to make any changes, and that instead the devs should be changing the game so that you can keep playing the same build in the same way.

This one’s my favorite…

These are rocket pigs, the other melee.

There’s three mauling me arse.

Getting a screenshot with all the melee in it isn’t always easy, but getting one with a few in there isn’t that hard. Mind you that on PC there are only four live players in any given match. Three of them in that picture was running a variation of the Boring Trucker. Maulers in this case.

There’s at least three in this picture too.

This one’s just funny, because it’s melee devouring melee…

…then getting devoured by guess what…more melee.

It’s not all bricks, but it’s a lot of melee, and it’s a lot melee bricks.

I run a lot of Tempuras (also melee) myself lately, because it’s great against melee, and everything else.
I’m just playing the game that it is, and it’s a lot melee. Otherwise, it’d be like bringing guns to a knife-fight? :thinking:


they are everywhere. i dont know what platform or region you play, but with eu on pc, it feels like every single person who plays top tier / clan wars does have access to a shotgun brick.

thats the same as saying “as long as pedofiles arent a majority of all human beings on earth, i dont see a huge problem and we should do nothing about them”

i played like 10 1v1s against a brick player in bedlam and i struggled way too much. towards the end i learned how to counter it slightly better, but now imagine there are two bricks, or that there are actually other people shooting you.
im not saying its physically impossible to kill a brick even in these conditions, but the skill ceiling differences for different types of builds are massive. an unskilled cannon player will never hit the tiny hitbox of shotguns, and you need like 4 shots anyway since finwhale and omamori makes the weapon unstrippable.
at one point i won a 1v1 by cabin hp, even though the entire time i tried to shoot the weapons.

so what if i dont wanna shove money into the game to buy an entire new type of build? what if i dont want to adapt to a completely overpowered meta, which will 1000% be nerfed at some point in the future? its just horrible logic.

you saying “adapt to the meta” honestly makes you sound like a Targem salesman, because you adapting to the meta is the literal one and only goal the developers have

That’s why I’m so surprised that you only own two weapon loadouts, and yet you are worried about CW. I would have assumed that anyone invested in CW would have multiple types of builds, so that they can adapt to the constantly shifting meta.

Do you really think this is a valid comparison? I find it highly offensive.

Why on earth would you be using Bedlam to try to learn how to better counter bricks? Better to make you own brick, and learn from what kills your brick, but you have made it clear that you refuse to do that.

The opening animation makes it pretty clear that we are expected to be constantly rebuilding and improving our builds in response to changing conditions on the battlefield.
If you want a game where you can master one build and never have to adapt, you are playing the wrong game.

thats a random assumption and i wonder where it comes from because it doesnt make much sense, i dont see why it should be that way

i had to use an extreme comparison to highlight how invalid your argument was

… why not? give me a singular reason why i shouldnt learn pvp in bedlam? also, you keep going back to me using my own brick, so again as i said before, 1) will not do it, 2) it is straight up NOT a way to learn to counter bricks

if you want a game where one specific style of build totally outclasses everything, is cheaper than other types of builds, takes less skill, in terms of specs its objectively better than other types of builds and dominates clan war as well as basically any pvp gamemode, and is conveniently actively buffed by p2w items such as infinite invisibility or weapon hp engine with a lot of tonnage that can be used as armor nicely too, then youre playing the right live service garbage

we keep shitting out the same points every other comment, but why dont you tell me why you think its good that a game has a sort of one-size-fits-all meta that people should “adapt to” in a way that means literally buying the same shit as everyone else? when you think about the argument of “just adapt” for more than 5 seconds the entire logic of it falls apart

Because competitive players know that the best way to be competitive is to master a variety of strategies. At the very least you should have three good builds to choose from, depending on what team and map you are facing.

I know you think outrageous hyperbole is a good strategy to convince people of your viewpoint, but in reality it does the opposite. If you regularly say absurd things to prove your point, you are showing that you can’t prove your point with actual facts.

Because it is not a competitive mode, and many people who hang out in Badlam will get mad at you if you keep going in there and attacking people. I don’t see what you think you are going to learn on bedlam. If you want to learn PVP, play PVP like a normal person.

You are putting words in my mouth.
I have repeatedly said you should not spend money unless you want to. And I have repeatedly said that the only reason I am recommending you try a brick build is so that you can improve your existing favourite build to better counter them.
And yes, you do need to learn how to adapt. The game is always changing, and the metas are always changing. In a couple months there will be a whole new meta, and it might even favour you this time. That new reload module should help out a lot when facing close range builds while playing cannons. Even if you don’t obtain that module, enough other people will have that the meta will shift.

Anyway, believe it or not, I am actually trying to help you.
Since you won’t experiment with brick builds yourself, I did. Here’s what I learned in a couple days of playing:

  • the strongest hover cannon builds against close range bricks are the most mobile and agile ones. I think you said yours is slow. There are lots of ways of making your build more agile without spending money. If you can dodge a dog and then cloak, you can beat that dog.
  • get yourself a verifier, or get yourself a teammate who has one. It’s very easy to get overly dependent on Yeti, and seeing your cloak glitch out as you approach your victim is a major deterrent. If you can see them coming, you can start pounding them before you are in danger.
  • use bumpers with lots of melee resistance to protect your build from melee attacks. If done right, you can withstand a lot of melee and ramming attacks.
  • hide your hovers deep inside your build. They are your weakest point against close range attacks.
  • practice your bull fighting moves. Yes, the current bricks handle better than before, but high mass vehicles at high speed still slide a lot. If you strafe at the right time, it is very hard to correct quick enough to still make contact. Pivot and shoot them in the back.
  • consider using Falcon or neutrino. If the brick is running Yeti, they also have an explosive Rune hidden somewhere. If they’re running flamethrowers or skadi, there’s an ammo pack to target, and of course everyone has a generator. Cannons are still good at popping explosives, if you know where to shoot.

all i did was compare your argument to something outrageous to show that the logic is invalid

there are great and competetive players in bedlam, most certainly more skilled than the random joe you find in “PvP”. you wont learn 1v1s in “PvP” either.
crazy that i learn pvp like an abnormal person according to you, yet i am better than the so called normal person.

you will have a hard time finding a viable lightweight mammoth hover build, not even mentioning CW.

verifier is a good point, but still wont help you when youre already getting fucked up

==> bedlam

already done

i think i have a pretty well optimized hover build, its relatively slow (compared to the fast icarus 7 builds) and it can withstand a lot of damage, but as i already said, even i struggle to fight a brick, and my 16 energy is already filled so i cannot afford to use verifier, unless i give up flywheel (i wont).

shouldnt i have an advantage shooting off weapons from bricks? i have good angles and the guns are higher than the shotguns, why make it almost impossible to strip?

I think I MVP with subpar builds often enough to suspect it’s not all about your own build, but has a lot to do with one’s ability to play as a team. Teams that don’t play as teams, where everybody thinks they are the lone hero of the story, get demolished by melee one by one, and maybe that’s the way it it should be.

I can tell you from playing melee myself, that these lone heroes (who these days are often also melee) are always my target. That and campers sitting on their ass eating a sandwich and drinking a beer up on the hill by themself, or whatever, causally picking off noobs.

If these guys had a team-mate they would likely not end up my victims, and often don’t when they do. When my team does well, it is when it is rolling like a mob, targeting any melee that gets in the mix, watching each other’s backs.

Ideally, when playing a dog or almost anything, I like to let the Hover guy pick targets, and either catch the rush he provokes, or use his cover-fire to back me up when I dispatch those distant enemies they have targeted.

Maybe, if you are a Hover jockey in a dog-rich environment, it would be wise to pick a team-mate who is a dog and use his ass for cover from the rush, and also provide them cover-fire for the targets they dispatch. Whichever one of you does better at this task will earn the MVP, and more importantly, your team wins and we all get paid.

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This explains a lot. As you said, you are slow, which is the main reason you are struggling against bricks. Being able to withstand a lot of damage isn’t going to help you much against close range attacks.
You can make your build more agile by losing some armour, using a different cabin, using a different engine, fusing your hovers (if you haven’t already), switching to the other hovers, using less hovers, etc.

If you are a slow cannon build, you will always be weak against close range attacks. You can either accept that, or improve your build.

I find it hard to believe you’re going to find many competitive players hanging out in a non-competitive mode. And I also think you are making a big mistake focussing on 1v1 situations. That 1v1 scenario really only applies if the rest of both teams are already dead. If you are always the last one on your team still alive, you need to work on your teamwork.

Fast cannon builds exist, and are generally much better than slow ones. What cabin are you currently using? There are lots of medium cabins with good speed and mass limit. Those are the ones that really give my close range builds a hard time. Especially when they use their recoil to push themselves away from me. Pretty sure you can do that on a heavy hover build.

What is your current load out? I wouldn’t give up a flywheel either, but there might be another element you could get rid of.
I remember you saying that your complaints were more about CW.

Maybe work on your team composition more? Surely one of your teammates could run a verifier, and it would be smart if at least a couple of you had kapkans. Single kapkans don’t do much against fast bricks, but if your team can drop multiple ones they can still be effective. Ideally one of you would be running a close range build to help guard the range players. If you guys are all playing slow cannon hovers every match, you are going to have issues.

Other forum members who care about CW can say more about good team composition. There are a lot of different configurations, and some work better than others against specific threats.

Degunning shotguns and flamethrowers has always been tricky. Harvesters are a lot easier to shoot off. In my experience when using cannons, it’s sometimes better to aim a bit higher than you think you need to, so that your giant projectile doesn’t hit the front plows before being able to reach the shotguns. Fire dogs are easier to degun, but aiming a bit high can also help avoid hitting the ground before the build. The giant invisible projectile hit boxes are annoying. Makes it easier to hit someone, but harder to hit the part you’re aiming for.

@DocSavage makes some great points in his post as well, even though he doesn’t play high PS or CW. Same strategies apply.

Can you see the problem with that strategy when you read back what you wrote here? Outrageous hyperbole is good at riling up people who are already angry about the same thing. But to anyone who doesn’t already agree with you, it just makes you seem irrational. Try addressing the actual reality, rather than inventing outrageous things to get reactions.

I thought you said you and your teammates were skilled and have good weapons?
Anyway, if you followed my advice and actually tried playing a brick, you would realize that what you are claiming is just not true. Sometimes they will kill their victim before their teammate rescues them, but if done well you can totally rescue a teammate from a dog attack.

Stop trying to dewheel them and use your cannons for jobs they are better at.

And even if one teammate dies and the attacker also dies, those two deaths cancel each other out, and no team has come out ahead.

not true

stripping armor simply is not a possibility in CW, so much of my weight that could be armor is my weapons already.

fused hovers, fused hadron, fused mammoth, fused ammo, fused colossus.

i would need to re-fuse 8 icarus 7s to be able to play. also i dont think fast hovers are a good idea with an inherently slow (accounting for very minimal armor) mammoth build.
less hovers is not a possibility.

my build excels at close range attacks, unless i get pinned to a wall or to nothing more than high speed getting pushed. no build escapes that unless very light (therefore already dead because no armor or hp)

im just telling you how bedlam is.

unless im playing competitive CW with competitive players, my team will not help when attacked by a dog. that is the reality of crossout. it will end up a 1v1

not really for mammoth. at most with all god fuses, which i dont have and wont have

the only thing that you could remove is omamori, but i wont remove that

its better to aim completely off the dog build and at a 0 degree angle, because thats how stupid targeting is when dealing with a micro hitbox like shotguns. thats why i say, a less skilled cannon player will never hit the weapons

not bricks. im not even scared of regular dog builds, you can dodge and shake them off so easily compared to immovable bricks

i think my comparison was good for invalidating the logic. just read the comment i sent and evaluate it for what it was meant to be, instead of being offended by a non-existent insult or whatever

at most if i play competitively in CW in a competitive clan

issue is that the person being attacked physically cannot do anything in time, nor can their team to save them in time. this happens more often than it should

I give up. You don’t want to learn or grow, you just want the devs to cater to you and change things to make your life easier.
Good luck with that!

i have absolutely no clue what im supposed to learn. there is not a single thing you attempted to “teach” me apart from attempting to say that bricks are not a legitimate problem in the game.