Just jumped onto the test server to look at the ammo counts they gave weapons:
In most cases:
Machine guns got anywhere from 350 to 600 ammo
Shotguns got anywhere from 30 to 250 ammo
Auto cannons got anywhere from 150 to 400
Spark line 250 ammo
Some bits that seem broken:
Gravestars 400 ammo (seems unfair to other shotguns and electric weapons)
Blockchain 25 ammo (Seems to low)
Aurora 600 ammo (since when does lasers use ammo?) Guess they are matching it mgs
Plasma Emitters 70 ammo (this just seems low comparably to machine guns and autocannons)
Trigger, Destructor 20 ammo
Athena 14 volley (Seems to low as much as it’s a devastating weapon)
Summator, Argument 120 ammo
Adaptor 120 ammo
Corvo 16 ammo (Seems to low)
Emily 14 ammo (Seems to low)
Median 18 ammo
Nagual 13 ammo (Seems to low)
Kaiju 10 volleys (Seems to low)
Thyrsus 35 volleys (Seems to low)
Parser 30 ammo (Seems to low) Similar with the junkbow line.
They are going to need some extra work on some of these if they go through with this. I don’t mind the concept. I will hate having to rebuild everything but I can also see some balance concept in it. Some values and usage styles I think are a bit off though.
I would go check this out if I were you as they give you the majority of the weapons to test.
Thank you for actually checking out the test server and reporting back!
Some of those numbers do seem weird to me, but I guess fire rate might be a big factor in how they are calculated.
I’d be interested in seeing how quickly players can run out of ammo when firing constantly. I suspect that might be how they are initially balancing things, with the intention of making further adjustments to balance stronger and weaker weapons, once the data start accumulating.
Balance updates should never end with a game like this, unless they stop adding new items, and that is not going to happen. This is not a static game, and is always growing. And even if every new item were perfectly balanced on release, creative players will always find new exploits that may need to be addressed.
Without ammo packs I couldn’t make it through my test range, same with upgraded rare ammo packs. I managed to disarm my own builds and kill 1 visitor and a bit of rnd dmg to range builds but that was about it. I just didn’t want to wait around trying to get a test match going so hard to say in actual combat. I suspect the amounts will have to be higher but that’s just me.
I think some of the values are going to have be looked at as avg durability in build PS score vs fire rate.
It kind of depends on the mode if it will matter that much.
Next step modes: Doesn’t matter it has respawns
Classic: Matters
CC/CW/UW: Matters
Raids: Doesn’t Matter much it has ammo drops until boss.
Awakening: Doesn’t Matter much as it has ammo drops
Events and Brawls: Depends on conditions set in the individual mode.
As you can kind of get some of everything it doesn’t bother me as much.
That would simply things, but would also remove a balancing mechanic.
And since balance is the number one thing you guys complain about, it makes sense the devs are focusing on giving themselves more ways of fine tuning balance, first through the energy rework and now through this.
It’s been pretty clear for a while that they needed more ways to subtly balance things while still allowing different weapons to actually feel different. The alternative is for every weapon to feel like they’ve just put a different skin on the same gun, and that is completely opposite to what makes Crossout special.
I meant more compare how long it takes to run out of ammo while just shooting at a wall as fast as you can shoot. Even just doing this with a few guns would give us an idea of whether that’s how they’re approaching the ammo counts.
I’ve noticed previously that weapons that have low ammo counts also reload so slowly that they don’t run out of ammo any quicker during actual matches.
That logic makes sense, but maybe we should have battery packs for lasers and energy weapons?
Although that might be too big of a change to introduce at the same time as this.
I’m sure some of it will be rate of fire and accuracy based in how much they give. I’m sure they didn’t just toss up randoms for the first test values. I kind of just tried to grab the range of values just so we could have an general idea. If I manage to get on tomorrow maybe I’ll try to be more accurate.
Some slow weapons the low ammo counts really don’t bother them take avalanche for example I hardly ever run out of ammo with them. Crickets I tend to get away with 1 upgraded epic ammo box for most matches but it runs a lot closer to empty then the avalanche that takes longer to reload. They have the same 10 base ammo count.
Junkbow line 30 shots isn’t much given that the spread can and range can make dmg fairly low comparably. You can end up taking a fair amount of shots with those.
Millers with 31x the ammo of those two I run out of fairly fast. Some of the longer range autocannons I think are going to have issues as you shoot a fair amount of spam shots at heli’s The lowest ammo count autocannon was the stillwind but your actually trying to be very accurate with that at least. Some on the list I think are just overly low especially emily, corvo, adaptor, the plasma emitters too but I missed typed those as their volley shots.
Calculating it out like that makes it look better for the emitters. It still seems low to me.
I think that might be whats going on with the emily and the other revolvers too possibly.
Some of the weapon bonuses are going to be messed up too:
Cyclones, arbiters to point at two, same with some with bonuses depending on heating even though you can still heat a gun up while not spamming a shot.
I was kind of joking about that as you have a generator right on the cab plus an extra one sometimes… The naming of it being ammo just seems off for those types of weapons though.
I suspect that at least part of the reason for this change is to discourage bullet spamming, especially with ACs.
While it’s a valid approach to playing those weapons, it leads to too many matches where a bunch of cyclone builds group up and are able to effectively stop anyone from getting close to them, as well as being able to stop longer range players from lining up a good shot.
Quite possible as far as spamming goes though as I was mentioning it’s going to mess a lot with the cyclone bonus that kind of depends on spamming shots to boost the dps. There was a bunch of small things that I was trying to look at that was like this. Same with arb’s mini-gun line where the bonus depends on firing time.
Maybe a fuel cell too (sort of already mentioned at this point), for energy weapons, like the Rune? It would help bring some needed logic into the “ammo” situation there, and maybe add some color to that tech-tree.
The developers are really grinding out the new features hard since “Supercharged.” I hope at some point soon they slow down with all this (but not until after boats, haha) and focus on updating previous features that at this point should either be addressed or removed like bloatware.
Ya, for some reason (and I doubt it’s “balance”) they decided not to do it the easy way. I’m sure they will want to build on this later. I bet there are plans to do more with this feature…but who knows, they abandon ideas like easy lovers, leaving dysfunctional bastards everywhere. It’s a mess, but I bet this one’s a “keeper.” Probably.
This is going to be a big adjustment for a lot of people, but it seems incredibly fortunate for me. I don’t want to get too excited yet, but the premise feels like it favors my play-style a lot, only mitigated by the buff to weapons that are still loaded. Essentially everybody will all have better ammo, but a lot less of it. A very finite amount…Mua-haha.
For the fact of the matter I have to add ammo crates to 90% of my builds as is. With the exception of 1 set of Mg’s and my Starfall build. So adding a ammo crate to the few remaining of my builds ain’t gonna be a real big issue actually. Lets say its just the premise of it in a fantasy based video game where anything is possible.
Cringe Warning! One thing that has never been introduced which surprised me is the need of lead scrap for ammo.
A way to implement it into the Awakening map to capture truck loads of it coming out of the mines where slave labor is used ( The slave truck is already in Awakening if I remember correctly) Being transported in the waste land. If they do this then adding mech legs & gyro copters need to be also implemented. Also empty casings as another required necessity. We have been wondering what to do with those silly things.
Shoot me now or later for that thought.
One thing that has never been introduced which surprised me is the need of lead scrap for ammo.