Radiators vs Coolers

Discussion
1

We know in the past that radiators had a larger impact than coolers for the vast majority of builds. In light of changes being implemented this patch, it probably makes sense to revisit the subject. I am stuck at work, so I have no feedback to offer just yet but I am curious to hear from strategic minds that already have access to the new parameters.

What is the most efficient may to setup builds using heating/cooling weapons now? Is it still all radiators for MGs and cyclones? Coolers for SGs and maybe Stillwinds? A mix of both?

2

I’ll just say that I really don’t like the PS raise on both. Messes some rare/special/epic MGs builds that have trouble if pushed to higher PS.
Maybe it’s justified since fused rads/coolers are a pretty powerful thing, but still.

3

Since overheating your weapons still gives you a slight delay before the weapons start to cool down, running on only coolers won’t be a thing for the most part. You will still need at least one Seal to help with the heating management for pretty much everything and going with more that 1 radiator and 1 cooler is an overkill for almost everything other than shotguns tbh. Maybe a facehugging shotgun with a solid heat management might switch to 1 Seal + X coolers instead of the usual 1 cooler + X Seals. But shotgun wedgetables and “doglike” huggers usually don’t go beyond holding the fire button the whole time, I somewhat doubt that will be the case.

Perhaps a Draco/Firebug might replace a fused radiator for a cooler, especially in light of the ammo reserves nerf for Draco. It takes ~8 seconds to overheat a flamethrower without a radiator and since biting into an enemy usually stops the build, it would make full use of the stronger perk on the purple cooler. Same with Spark/Flash that takes like half the match to overheat.

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4

Raising rad ps. Hmm… Perhaps a special tier rad and cooler are coming in the new BP.

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5

Changes:

R-2 Chill

The module’s effectiveness when combined with shotguns has been reduced.

Comment: This radiator is practically the only option for a powerful 4000 - 5000 PS build equipped with shotguns.

CS Taymyr

Bonus to cooldown speed increased from 50% to 60%.

Comment: along with the improvement of coolers, we are trying to diversify vehicle builds and make coolers a real alternative to radiators.

RN Seal
  • PS increased from 275 to 400.
  • The module’s effectiveness when it’s combined with shotguns has been reduced.

Comment: at the moment, the radiator is too effective. This is especially noticeable at 5000 - 6000 PS and when using shotguns. That’s why we are implementing minor changes to its PS and reducing the module’s effectiveness when it’s used with shotguns.

Shiver
  • PS increased from 275 to 400.
  • Bonus to cooldown speed is now 85% (instead of 70%).
  • Maximum bonus from the perk increased from 30% to 45%.

Comment: the situation with “Shiver” is similar to the situation with “CS Taymyr”. We would like to make coolers a good alternative to radiators while assembling certain armoured cars.

Rads really have no change other than PS for any other weapon then shotgun. For Coolers the parameters were increased including shotguns. Other than the slight PS increase most builds I have didn’t experience any really noticeable changes.

The increases to the coolers aren’t really enough for me to want to change the combo’s I already have in place other than for testing.

6

I find a Cooler to work well with Auto cannons. But I still prefer radiators.

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7

Not with Cyclones

8

After playing around with both, it seems rads are still the best option, at least for non SG builds. The delay for cooling is just too long for them to make up the ground.

Glad they did buff them but I think it will need further improvement to see them on non SG builds.

3 Likes
9

Imo coolers should help reduce the time it takes before the cool down starts to happen. I can’t remember how long it takes for a cool down to start after you stop firing. Probably a second or so
If the cooler reduces cool down speed by %50 it should also reduce the time it takes to start the cool down by 50%. So half a second after you stop shooting. The cool down would start etc, this would make them even better for tap firing specifically. Which helps with auto cannons and maybe shotguns depending, basically radiators should be good for constantly shooting and coolers should be good for tap firing

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10

I’ve noticed that coolers feel like they’re doing more than they used to with weapons that I tap fire. I’ve been trying to tap fire more with MGs and autocannons, as the reduced spread really helps me hit more of my shots.

11

coolers do feel batter after the buff, but they only feel better to a certain extent
lets say a radiator reduces the amount of heat put into your gun by half (50%)
and coolers increase cooling rate by twice as much (100%)
so your guns can either produce half as much hear, or cool down twice as fast, on paper these both seem to have the same result for tap firing, and your correct they quite literally have the same result for tap firing
both of these things still need to wait for the 1 second delay after you stop firing as well so tap wait a second now your cooldown starts, tap again repeat etc,
so if coolers and radiators are the same for tap firing why are radiators still better you ask? well, it is simple, radiators have a higher burst damage/ higher constant fire damage compared to coolers
lets put you into the game, you have 2 rapiers and your tap firing at noobs across the map, believe it or not but, you can do this no matter what you have equipped, even if you have nothing you can still slowly tap fire and never overheat your weapons, it is only when you want to shoot faster that the problems start to occur
lets say an enemy gets close, you start shooting faster and faster until you are almost full auto when you reach the speed where your 1 second cooldown window never stops as in, you are shooting too fast for cooling to ever take effect, coolers become useless until you overheat your gun/ stop shooting entirely coolers give you a max of 14 shots at full auto so if someone is in front of you are just full autoing them trying to kill them before they kill you, you get a max of 14 shots off, and then you need to reload before shooting another 14 shots
meanwhile if you have a radiator, you get 24 shots off before you need to reload, this means you have a higher initial burst damage compared to coolers, you fire almost twice as many bullets before needing to reload with a cooler, you need to reload in-between shooting, would you rather be reloading while trying to kill someone, or after you have potentially killed someone? even if you die, which, you probably will die either way, at least with a radiator, you will get more shots off before dying, your burst damage is higher, not to mention, if you go out do some burse damage to someone that is close and then manage to hide or move behind cover you can then wait in safety for your weapon to cooldown which means you shooting them more and them shooting you less

10.30 full auto rad 24 shots
14.00 tap fier rad 24 shots

6.00 full auto cooler 14 shots
10.30 full auto cooler 24 shots
12.00 full auto cooler 28 shots
14.00 tap fire cooler 24 shots

7.30 full auto nothing 14 shots
15.00 full auto nothing 28 shots
14.00 tap fier nothing 24 shots

this is why I think coolers should be changed, they would let you tap fire faster since you don’t have to wait the full second before cooling starts, even if for example, coolers reduced the delay before cooling by 50% but only increased cooling rate by 25% they would probably still be better for tap firing, sure your guns would cool down slower, but the star to cool down “sooner” which would make them good for tap firing, and bad for full auto

12

Does anyone ever use more then one trigger for weapons? I do. Any weapon with a very fast reticle bloom like piercers i keep on a bumper not a trigger so it has better responce to its bloom expansions. IT ACTUALLY HELPS TO USE MORE THEN ONE TRIGGER PEOPLE. Idk how i do it with three triggers shooting at someone but i get MVP i feel like it works really well if you use 3 different guns and time each bloom expansion with practice. Also you can create ur own gun songs waiting for the enemy. Pretty cool if you ask me. Im a pianist so my fingers are extra talented and makes me shoot like a nut haha.

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13

I can’t say I see that. Mgs and shotguns have no benefit to being on different triggers. People put things like canons and scorps on separate triggers though. Or rockets. Reload weapons.

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14

Agreed, cooler are still not that good.

15

Yeah, there is no reason to put non-reload weapons on two triggers.

But to each his own.

16

If I have two energy to use for cooling, I usually use one Seal and one Shiver. With miniguns I’ll stack Seals. I’ve also found stacking Seals works well with Threshers, because it gives you enough firing time to overwhelm most enemies if they try to get close.
I should probably do some actual testing with the damage meter to see if I’m actually making good choices.

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17

their is a point to having 2 different non reload weapons attack to 2 separate triggers if you have long and short ranged weapons, or even weapons with aiming times, it gets allot more complicated to keep track of everything but it does have a slight benefit
for example, if you have miniguns and shotguns you can use your miniguns at long range and shotguns only when someone gets close to you, shotguns are more effective at short range because they have a high spread, you may also not want to just constantly shoot your shotguns in case someone does get close to you, in which time you have allot of burst damage ready to shove in their face

if 2 different weapons also have different aiming times and if you want to burst fire multiple types of weapons with as much accuracy as possible as fast as possible, one weapon will need to be burst fired slower then the other, since, after each burst/ shot it will take longer for one weapon to fully aim in again, most of us untalented people brush this off as a stupid idea and prefer to build vehicles with only one type of non reload weapon because of it, you hardly see people running around with a single rapier and a single spitfire now do you? or a rapier and a minigun, and if people are running combos like that, I doubt they care or are going for accuracy, they just want to left click and shoot all their random guns at the same time
yes, most people are happy to put like, a cannon on left click and a pyre on right click, or rapier on left click and a cannon on right click, whatever you want, no point in shooting your cannon randomly after it reloads might as well save it for a worth while target you know you can hit
unfortunately you are wrong and mister piano fingers is right in this instance, just that, not all of us have mister piano fingers over here, and the rest of us just don’t really care/ prefer to just build a vehicle with 2 rapiers rather then a mix of random junk, lets you focus harder on the one thing your vehicle is really good at which, in itself, is just as good as having piano fingers/ random guns

18

if coolers stack multiplicatively they could be good if you reach over 400%, I know coolers were capped at 300% a while ago, no idea if that has changed or not but ill put it like this
if coolers stack additively they just straight up suck and get worse when you add more compared to radiators
if they stack multiplicatively well they could be good

a shiver at the moment reduces cooldown time by 130% while at stationary not to say it removes cooldown time, it is actually a bit more complicated then that
100% if your default cooldown time, for a given unit, lets say the cooldown length is 4 seconds, so 4 seconds is 100% their is also the 1 second delay you need to factor in, the reason this is important is because you cannot reduce this 1 second delay but when you need to cooldown multiple times to shoot as many bullets as a radiator this 1 second needs to be times by the number of times you need to cooldown along with of Corse, your overall cooldown time

anyway to figure out how fast your cooldown will be you need to add 100% + 130% = 230% if you then divide 4 / 230% (must be % not just 240) you get the answer of 1.739 lets just round up to 1.74 you then need to add on the extra second that you cannot reduce with coolers, which gives the overall cooldown time of 2.74 with a single shiver

the next question is, how do these stack? if the stack by doing the entire calculation at the same time for example

100% + 130% + 130% = 360% from what I have found is that coolers actually get worse when you stack them compared to radiators

for example
if by default it takes 4+1 second to reload and you can shoot 100 bullets
2 radiators gives you 300 bullets to shoot every 5 seconds (the RN seal reached 100% cooling at full speed)
2 coolers requires 3 reloads to accomplish the same thing starting at 4 seconds and then dividing by 360% we get 1.1 add the second from before and your new cooldown time is 2.1 times that by 3 since you require 3 reloads and you have 6.3 this is much worse then a radiators

however if coolers stack multiplicatively for the same scenario the way you add things together change
first you add up the cooling of the first cooler so, 100% 130% = 230% which gives a cooldown rate of 1.74
you then take 1.74 make that the new “100%” and start the process over again 1.74 / 230% is 0.756 add the 1 second and you get 1.76 roughly which is allot lower then 2.1 like we had before, so if coolers stack in a multiplicative fashion and if they have uncapped max cooling capacity, they could become better then radiators when you stack enough of them

1.76 x 3 = 5.28 which is much closer to the radiators 5 second cooldown per 300 bullets

if you continue on with this you will find that at about 3-4 coolers, coolers become better, but remember, this is only if they stack in a multiplicative way dividing your time in half and then in half again, as to if they do that or not, I honestly have no idea, I don’t have 3-4 shivers in game to test cooler stacking

19

Everything in this game is multiplicative*. Coolers and radiators may be an exception though. I’ve never tested and done the math for them. If someone has; please; chime in.

20

I know radiators are additive at least because the amount of shots/ time you get before gun overheats stays the same, ie, if you start with 14 shots and a rad gives you an extra 10 another rad gives you another 10, if coolers are additive tho, I would never recommend using more then 1 single fused shiver each new cooler added would be half as efficient as the last, and half as efficient again if that makes sense