What gun were you testing with? Could you test a few different types of guns to see if there is a big difference? Ideally one shotgun, one AC, and one MG (could just be rares).
My tests here were done with rapiers,
I can tell you now that currently radiators and shotguns are a bad mix. Radiators are not worth it compared to coolers when the radiators are half as efficient etc
I will test out machine guns tomorrow if i get the chance
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It really depends on the gun to determine whether radiators or coolers are more affective. Whirl is the only auto Canon where u want lots of coolers. All the others are best off with all seals. All machine guns are just better off with all seals. Shotguns are best with a mix of the two.
Why do you say whirls are better with coolers?
Because they are. Give it a test.
I have little free time at the moment, or I wouldā¦
Curious what would make coolers better for any non-shotgun class weapon than radiators. You made the claim, so it seems reasonable you could/would provide your reasoning why that is so.
I wouldnāt touch a cooler with a 10 foot pole while playing Whirls ngl. They already cool down really fast. Maybe tenshi meant Joules?
Iām not the first person to make this claim. This is passed down knowledge. Idk the exact reason why. Itās probably the same reason shotguns make better use of a cooler than other weapon types. They have less shots till they overheat than other weapons.
Just because I donāt know exactly why doesnāt mean itās untrue. Test it out.
Try it.
Ps I just tested it to make sure. Since this is old info and I never play whirls. And all radiators does not outperform all coolers for whirl builds. But mixing the two does lower performance.
Why are coolers better? I conclude because most whirl builds are gonna face hug people and be in the heat of combat up real close, the shiver perk will be more beneficial. I doubt many whirl builds are speed Monger bananas due to their slow turn speeds. An oppressor banana with seals would do well though, but ultimately the cooler build will yield more DPs, as long as your using shivers. With blue radiators vs blue coolers the dammage is pretty much the same.
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this topic is one of those that will only die when the game does.
the discussions are also going the same way each time. one dude is trying to/doing the maths and others just repeat rumours and their own beliefs.
before the cooler buff seals have been clearly better for any weapon for forever, yet some people thought otherwise. back then you wouldnt find decent cw exhibition builds with coolers.
id say look at high cw blueprints or do the/understand someone elses math. cw nerds know better than the ramblers in here.
i like that you used a macro, others didnt and often their argument already failed with very poor testing standards.
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alright I have already tested tap firing with shivers/seals and I have tested full auto with the blue radiators at about 70% efficiency each, and we already know that, while coolers and radiators are roughly equal radiators win, I should be able to use this information to test full auto while sitting still with a shiver vs full auto while sitting still with a radiator, + how they work when stacked, I theorize that once again you may be correct but I have a feeling stacking coolers will be worse then lets say, 1 cooler + rads their after, Iām also curious to know what happens when we adjust the the cooldown period and amount of shots fires/ seconds firing period, Iām going to start with that because it seems easier
lets say we have a weapon that has 20 second of cooldown (19.5 + 0.5) and it can only fire 1 shot
lets say we have a radiator that is 100% efficient, and a cooler that is 120% efficient (this would be the difference between 2 blue unfused rads/coolers)
with 100% efficiency radiators you would get 2 shots every 20 seconds
with 120% efficiency coolers you would get 1 shot every 9.36 if you want 2 shots you need to wait 18.7 seconds
so with his theoretical gun a single cooler would be better then a single radiator
lets stack em
with 200% efficiency radiators you get 3 shots every 20 seconds
with 240% efficiency coolers you get 3 shots every 25.8 seconds
whelp coolers died after stacking them twice, now why was the cooler better here you might ask? well, simple. I widened the gap between what you can cooldown and what you cannot cooldown, (19.5) second of cooldown and (0.5) second of well waiting before cooldown starts, this 0.5 seconds if the bane of existence for coolers, and needing it wait for it every time you want to reload is the reason why reloading more often then not reloading is bad, the more you have to reload the more 0.5 seconds you need to wait to, so now you might ask? well how long does the cooldown time need to be for a single cooler to beat a radiator, sure ill answer that question for you
well the answer seems to be about 6 seconds, at 6 seconds of total cooldown, at with 120% cooling efficiency, you can be equal to a radiator. yes equal
(5.5 / 220% +0.5) X2 = 6
5.5 (weapon total cooldown time - 0.5)
220% (coolers efficiency +100% base stat)
0.5 (the wait time you cannot reduce)
x2 (the amount of times you need to reload)
6 (the overall time it will take you to reload X amount of times)
you can pretty much just punch this equation into google and change whatever you like to suit your setup
from this is can see that going above 6 seconds, with 120% cooling efficiency vs 100% rad efficiency, you can beat out a radiator
now lets use this information to test out the difference between a stationary shiver and a stationary seal,
so we have 85% rad and 130% cooler, now that we know that time before reload matters I will include multiple equations so you can see the differences I also will not include stacking as, stacking just gets worse for coolers and i really want to give coolers the best possible outcome, with that being said, please donāt stack coolers ever unless your doing shotgun builds lol
to make my life simple we will use theoretical guns again, my gun shoots 100 bullets/ for 100 seconds, and itās reload time is irrelevant since Iām going to give results for all sorts of reload times, the gun will be fires full auto to simulate dog style gameplay
with a single radiator we have 185 shots fired every X amount of reload time
with a cooler we get 100 shots fired every (((X amount of reload divided by 230%) + 0.5) X 185%)
all this means is that, if we start with 6 seconds of reload, after using the equation we need to be below 6 seconds for coolers to be better etc
1 seccond
(0.5 / 230% +0.5) X185% = 1.32
1.5 seconds
(1 / 230% +0.5) X185% = 1.72
2 seconds
(1.5 / 230% +0.5) X185% =2.13
2.5 seconds
(2 / 230% +0.5) X185% = 2.53
3 seconds
(2.5 / 230% +0.5) X185% = 2.93 (lower then 3 seconds a single cooler is now better then a single radiator in this scenario)
3.5 seconds
(3 / 230% +0.5) X185% = 3.33
so when comparing a stationary shiver to a stationary seal, we can see that, if your gun at least has 3 seconds of reload time single shiver can be better then a single radiator the longer your guns reload time, ie, the wider the gap between 0.5 and the reload time, the more efficient coolers become
I will stack like 3 of these to show you how bad they can become
with 3 rads you will get 355 fire duration and with 3 coolers we get 490 efficiency
1 seconds
(0.5 / 490% +0.5) X355% = 2.13
1.5 = 2.49
2 = 2.86
2.5 = 3.22
3 = 3.586
4 = 4.31
5 = 5.03 (almost)
5.5 = 5.39
alright so if you stack 3 coolers on top of each other, you can see that your weapons now need to have a 5 and a half second cooldown time before they become more efficient then radiators 3 radiators, now remember this is giving coolers the best possible scenario, this is with coolers having 130% efficiency and radiators having 85% efficiency, but what you can take from this is that with this yes you may want to put a single cooler on your builds if you plan on sitting still, sniping across the map, or using a dog/ not moving while you are shooting, but I would not recommend going past a single cooler in this specific scenario , also any movement while shooting = radiators being better in and every world
I could also maybe see a situation where you have a single shiver and then the rest just being rads, so you run around shoot shoot shoot, and then when it is time to reload, just. stop and strand still hopefully behind cover etc this could make sense to me for a non dog build, but defiantly do not use more then a single shiver and never use the taymyr unless your doing an all shotgun build
oh and let me quickly test this as well, lets say we never stop moving ever this would then sway back towards radiators as being better but I want to know how much in this instance a single cooler only becomes better if your weapons has at least 4 and a half seconds of cooldown āsoā if you compare moving with a seal to standing still with a radiator, your weapons needs to have a 4 and a half second total cooldown or higher before it becomes better to stop in place, to cooldown your gun, compared to just, continuing to drive
4.5 secconds
(4 / 230% +0.5) X200% = 4.47
if you donāt mind could you either record the default reload length of a whirl and upload that recording to YouTube
if you record it just take a recording while holding down the trigger/ full auto, keep the trigger held down the entire time during the cooldown period so that when the weapon is ready to shoot again, it shoots instantly, I use the last shot and first shot as visual indications that cooldown has started/ stopped etc
or if you know the reloading length of a whirl could you please tell me what that cooldown length is
I have a retcher for example and itās default cooldown length is is 6 seconds, which means that, when comparing a single radiator to a single cooler, the cooler while standing still will probably outperform the single radiator while moving
and if I shoot while moving and reload while standing still that should be able to outperform 2 coolers or 2 radiators i think but the gameplay changes dramatically as well