i don’t know,but i can’t disarm any weapons or hit a target while moving any more.
i use to be deadly with my maces but something changed what i don’t know.
seems i can’t even shoot Armour off or wheels anymore.
i feel a fix is coming soon.
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I’ve been enjoying non-shotgun-out greatly, but yeah they might start buffing them again soon due to how many people are shotgun-invested. Gravastars seem as strong as ever if nothing else
I will miss the shotgun driving up to you or under you not being instant game over though, for the first time ever engaging shotgun builds was kind of fun when you could pretty much both do drive-by’s at each other and try to shoot/ram each other to a manageable degree, rather than weapons being instantly deleted the moment the shotgun build is within a few meters of you
So I am hoping that it won’t at least go back to as effective as it was before these changes even if they do get a buff or some helpful changes
@MudnBeer from the other post:
They also gave most of the MGs changes in min-max range compensations too.
So as I was saying it’s probably in some of these details that the current shotgun situation exists as they did little to modify them in the change over unlike what they did for other guns to maintain their accuracy.
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I did a little bit of testing earlier tonight.
First I made a new Hammerfall build with Torrero and Finwhale reducing spread, and switched the co-driver to Falcon for less spread in movement.
This did seem to make them more useable, although the damage still isn’t very impressive, even when you’re pinning/wedging your victim.
Then I tried using oppressor and buggy wheels to increase projectile speed (and gun rotation), with Jay also increasing projectile speed and reducing spread.
This version seemed a bit better at tracking targets while circling them, but seemed like overall damage was less consistent. In other words, there were less situations where the bullets missed the target completely, but it also seemed like there were more situations where very little of the bullet spray hit the target.
None of this was very scientific testing, so I’m just really reporting the general vibe I got from the two builds compared to my previous attempts.
I’m getting the feeling that all of the values they’d been using for the hitscan mechanic now have a much more drastic effect with projectiles. The devs mentioned how the spread calculations are completely different between hitscan and projectiles, so it’s possible that by not adjusting them, it’s led to and exaggerated effect on accuracy.
But I am still suspicious that something is going on with either a very slow projectile speed, or maybe the guns aren’t actually rotating as fast as the graphics portray, or there’s something weird happening with how your own vehicle movement (or gun movement) increases spread. It doesn’t make sense that you can be aiming directly at a target from 15 meters while driving and have nothing hit it. And since it feels like oppressor is helping, then it suggests the issue is more than just spread/accuracy.
Range seems really low, but I don’t play shotguns enough to say that it’s actually less. Just seems weird that I could throw a ball a lot further than shotguns can fire.
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fafnirs are downright unplayable. i was trying to use them and normally i can beat a bot easy with them, well my shots wouldnt even take off a rare auto cannon! hell i couldnt even get one to spark and i was getting my ass handed to me as well. even with the jackie, that 15% damage boost did absolutely nothing to help. even that 40% boost didnt help either with accuracy. i wasnt even taking off all that much armor either. something weird is going on with the shotguns. i havent tried my nidhogg so i have no idea how bad it is with them.
Try tossing on some omni wheels too.
Well they did add max of 15% projectile speed to oppressor too. So that will effect other things too.
Range should be around 35m max, however they could experience projectile drop now too as the range goes out towards that max.
We picked them to try with due to the spread reduction they have. I suggested the test based on some of the values they gave to other guns to compensate the change from hitscan.
fafnirs werent hitscan though… were they??
If they weren’t nothing would have changed with them outside of ammo count.
I hadn’t considered that projectile drop might be a factor. Could explain why the oppressor/jay combo appeared to help.
Would be weird for them to have that much projectile drop at such a short distance, but it could explain some of the weirdness.
And if it’s not drop, it could be that the spray effect gets really wide the further away you are, to a much larger degree than what they were simulating with hitscan.
I never thought I would ever be arguing for a buff to shotguns, but something just isn’t right here, and it’s turned them into a gun type that can really only be used like flamethrowers and melee. At least before we had the option of playing them like they’re an actual gun that you need to aim.
I think I’m going to do some testing to figure out how long the range actually is. I’m not convinced they’re doing damage at 35 meters. If I remember correctly, the shortest marker we have in the garage is 50 meters, right?
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Well If we contemplate what projectile drop does with cannons when projectile speed is boosted they might have left it low as not to exceed the shotguns max range. So where they were saying, “(because they would be minimally affected by the change due to the low range, which we do not plan to increase)” It kind of has me thinking in that direction.
Maybe try aiming slightly above the target? A quick test for it isn’t really coming to mind for it though.
If you look at the market prices drop on them, it’s fairly clear there’s a fair number of people experiencing issues with them. Even if part of it is not getting use to the changes, it’s still a rather significant market shift. If that many people are having issues with it then clearly something is wrong.
Yeah the shortest is 50m if you use the sign post for it, it has a line that extends from it giving distance so you can pretty much move it around in the garage and keep it lined up correctly with the firing line. I’d probably just try stick an object at half for 25m and then back set the target again near half but a little forward of the second mark as it would be 37.5m.
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but how would you explain the terrible damage even at point blank range? maybe it caused them to have to much damage drop off? or maybe it bugged the spread or something??
At point blank range it could be that the conical spread that shotguns have (I’m not sure how wide they have that set up for) it’s possible not all the micro-projectiles are hitting. If 5 out of 10 micro projectiles miss you’d be at half dmg fairly quickly even if you were close. @Poony4u mentioned this a few posts up.
I’d try setting setting up targets of different sizes and see if you can get full dmg on a larger target. shooting at another gun or a wheel might be too small of a target to see if you can still pull full dmg with them.
The projectile drop at point blank I don’t think would cover it, as that would be something more experienced at range. I’m not sure if they are giving projectiles a neg dmg modifier as they travel distance though. Normally as velocity falls, force also falls. Some of that depends on how they simulate the physics though.
I’m very much just trying to rule things in or out that might be going on based on what they have in the patch notes and what can be tested for.
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theres an easy way to tell. find a concrete wall and fire the fafnir at it. in the examples that the devs used before you can see the shots on the wall and the spread. the spread is supposed to be fixed across every shot. all shots land in the exact same spot… well taking into account range and whatnot.
im not sure if they reversed this or not but something isnt right.
I’m pretty sure that will only indicate the spread pattern they want to project. That’s not necessarily going to show what’s going on with dmg. Maybe see if the counts of simulated hits change each shot. I’m not sure if they changed any of that which is why I was thinking using an actual damageable target. You’d at least see the dmg amounts then.
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This might be an explanation.
We can assume that shotguns had the largest spread value previously. But with the hitscan mechanic, that spread may not have been increasing much over distance. And maybe when that number was applied to projectiles, it has resulted in a really wide cone, causing most pellets to completely miss the target.
I’m going to do some more experiments on the testing range. First figure out the actual range, and then see if I can make some targets to test what’s happening with spread. Maybe make a wall out of small low durability parts?
I’m not going to use fafnirs, as their spread is variable depending on movement. Will probably just keep using the hammerfalls, since their output should be more consistent.
so… i tried doing this in my garage and… it shoots 8 pellets.
the pellets go in a W pattern sort of. 3 pellets on the left, 2 in the middle, 3 on the right side.
it was hard to notice because the 8th pellet vanishes instantly as it hits something so originally i said 7 pellets.
i tried doing damage calculations in my garage on my build and… im doing around 120 damage per shot on my pvp build… its not dealing damage to weapons correctly, i did this going with the full spread reduction boost from the gun. something weird is that im doing 300 - 430 on my leviathan but i think because its so big it takes all the shots.
still though these numbers dont feel right to me.
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How close are you to your targets with this test? And were you moving to reduce the fafnir spread?
If you are trying to test the spread reduction perk, do it with buggy wheels so that it can be activated at low speed. Will help with consistency. Either that or stick to stationary shots with the big spread.
The difference in damage between the leviathan and the normal build suggests that spread could be the issue. But there’s also a chance the parts of your PVP build that you hit had more bullet damage resistance.
What are you getting on the damage meter?
i tested it at different distances. up close and further away and damage seems almost the same.
yep. thats what i was doing and the damage is really low. i have quite a few with bullet resistance… still though damage should not be that low. i was getting maybe 130 on hitting the cabin.
184 per gun… or rather per shot.
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ok this is weird…
on the damage meter im hitting 368 max with both my guns per shot.
on my leviathans cabin only i hit 334 max (machinist cabin, no armor around it i am hitting just the cabin.)
on my regular pvp build its 322 was my highest but i was getting lows of 276…
ok upon further testing i had to literally get right up on someone and have my entire crosshair on their vehicle to get max damage of 368… if they were even slightly out of that crosshair i wouldnt deal full damage.
this would explain why i wasnt able to take out the enemies weapons… this is just… ridiculous…
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On the mgs the increase in max range they had compensated them for was anywhere from 50 to 200m.
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