Something that hit me today - Balance

So we have plenty of different types of players and over the years it is one of the thing that I have come to love about Crossout. You can pick any part of the game and play it - unlike in many games when you level forward and can never go back.

So, because of this we get people with a completely different game experience.

In most cases I think it is 3 groups.

Group one: loves to play low and mid PS but has no experience or desire to play in high PS.

Group two: loves to play high PS and has done it so long they forget what low PS is like.

Group Three: this is the guy that has been around forever and plays all PS ranges and has had experience with all the weapons from top to bottom.

Now - with that out of the way :slight_smile: here is what hit me today.

When making complaint threads you still have those 3 groups and because of this it can become very confusing for the dev team to read and very frustrating to all three groups because they feel like no one understands. (Their is one more group “Clan Elitist” which I have been in before, but it is hard to talk about that group without sounding overly negative, so I’ll skip that)

So keep this in mind:
First of all everyone wants the weapons used at their own PS levels to be pretty balanced based on rarity and weapon type. But…

GROUP 1 Low/Mid PS players-
They are more worried about keeping high PS items nerfed or out of low PS. They feel like it is unfair to die to legendary items and relics.

GROUP 2 High PS players-
They are more worried about low and mid PS weapons being OP. It’s the “my item costs more then yours so it should be better then yours.” They feel like it is unfair to die to mid and low PS items.

Group 3 Jake of all trades - they want balance from low PS to High PS and think both groups have a valid points. But both groups can not relate to this stance.

When having conversations we need to keep this in mind. I understand most people are OCD with blinders on only worried about their own world. But we can do it in a more constructive manor that takes into account the whole game and not just one part.

The whole “I don’t play clan wars so that don’t mater to me” OR “Why don’t you get out of the kiddy pool and come play with the big boys?” OR “That build looks ugly to me so your stupid, space armor hover boy” Or “Meta is the only way! Why do I have to play with all these noobs!”

Maybe, just maybe, there is a little truth and a little drama in all of it? Right? And just maybe most of us are smart enough and adult enough to understand all the sides?

NAH!! What am I thinking!
:fu: :chicken: :poop: :clown_face: :eggplant:
(Forum supplied emoji are not against the rules - just sayin)

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I think you have a point there. I would describe myself as a jack-of-all trades at this point, but there have been times in the past when I preferred to play under 10kPS. Now I have too many legendary items to be satisfied sticking to lower PS.

I would say that I think balance is more important in low/mid PS, mostly because it’s not really possible to achieve real balance in high PS. Once you get close to 15kPS, you should be thinking of it as a no-holds-barred kind of game. If you’re playing up there, you should expect to be going up against the most powerful builds in the game and the most experienced players. Either you can handle it, or you can’t.
Maybe if the game were more popular, the matchmaking could allow for more PS balancing at higher PS, but currently that is not the case.
Balance is a never ending struggle in a game like this, but I feel like it’s better than ever. To me, if I see a wide variety of builds below 12kPS, that means they’re doing a decent job. The game is definitely much more diverse across all PS brackets than it was when I started playing.

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You’re a two (tho a chill one), Monkey, and a few regulars are definitely ones. I’ll let you decide what I am UwU.
I’m pretty sure Camo’s a three.

There’s always that one guy who plays nothin but his fully fused 5 porcs hover brick cryin that hovers or porcs are ruined every update. I can understand some twos, but some others are… yeaaaaaah…

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I think at this point your right, BUT the last 6 months or so I have been trying really really hard to be a number three :slight_smile: I have been building, playing and releasing low and mid PS builds. But I do think it is still going to take some time to beat a little of the high PS out of me :slight_smile: since the only builds I made for mid and low PS where super toxic OP stuff… I have room for growth.

BUT saying I’m a two is a huge step forward to what I used to be (Clan Elitist A-hole) - I feel like I have grown in a positive direction, but still have work :slight_smile:

With reading your stuff Clebardman, I going to say your a three. You play Clan War but your not an ass about it. You love mid PS PvP. You like to build good looking build but your not against using what is strong if the job calls for it. Did I peg you right? I think I pay attention pretty well :slight_smile:

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Very good points…

I might add a 4th

They think “I only play CW & everyone who doesn’t is a loser”
They say they don’t, but they pour tons of money into the game for relics.
They hate the game.
They don’t realize it, but are miserable.
They compose virtually every thread that starts with something like "The devs are stupid poopoo heads & the [insert part here] is irrevocably broken.

These people should be ignored by the devs for everything but creating very expensive broken items for them to pay for. :rofl:

I truly believe the devs do not play the game… at least, not like the rest of us do. If they were wise, they’d repeatedly start new accounts & play through like a real player. It’d give them the perspectives your 3 groups have, but they’d have it 1st hand.

As is, I think that IF they play, they play with accounts that have access to every part in the game kinda’ like those promo-account YouTubers have. They’re not playing the CrossOut we’re playing.

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Yeah, I had briefly mentioned this 4th group in the frist post. But it normally leads to some being an A-hole, so I skipped it.

Thank you for expanding :slight_smile:

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:laughing: :rofl:

I want to see you challenge yourself to make an efficient “car that looks like a car”.
Doesn’t matter the PS, but can only have 2 ST and 2 non-ST wheels, and realistic proportions.
Could be a shiny syndicate sports car, could be a monster truck, could be a mad max war rig; it just needs to actually be competitive at its PS range.

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I think we’re not dissimilar, I’d never play a doomed, useless rig lol. I like a good competition and it’s not going to happen if I show up in a pile of junk. To give you a vague idea, I kept my first car for like 6 months, until one day it got OS’ed by a TOW. I instantly scrapped it and built something else :joy:. If it sucks it sucks, I’m not gonna suffer just to look cool.

This said, in general, but this especially applies to CW, I really don’t see why anyone would complain about having options. I can see that Punisher/Arbiter hover Omamori is the ONLY option these days. And I don’t understand why the FOMO players fight tooth and nails to protect the current status quo, all the time. Top clan players who are playing exclusively FOMO shit since years, some of them manipulating the clan system too aren’t going to tell me they’re too poor to fuse 6 Omnis or legs, so why are they so hellbent on simping for hovers since years? Situation 1, another movement part becomes OP, you just switch. Situation 2, movement parts become balanced, the game becomes tactical and fun instead of being a stupid grindfest for tryhards who like to pat themselves on the back.

Having one best answer to every problem in a building game is just bad game-design honestly. I miss the game pre XO 2.0 lol. That update was mostly dreadful, and at the rythm at which they update their game and with how straight up clueless they are regarding movement part balance, hovers are going to be miles ahead anything else for years, if not until the game dies.

This looks like a hover rant, but replace “hovers” by “spaced armor” or any of XO’s universal answers to problems, my point stays the same. yeah spaced armor is cool. Why should it be the ONLY way to do it?

The other thing that makes me vouch for better balance is that I don’t think the entry cost for a specific PS bracket or CW should be something newcomers can’t affords. I didn’t make much uranium in my time in CW because I just… never looked for another clan than my tin circus (we laugh a lot so there’s that), but when I did it was on a horseshit 5 hovers 3 crickets Hot Red Harpy ride that probably cost 5k coins. Nowadays Tin is chokeful with fused relics, and my build probably wouldn’t pay for the fused hovers of a single opponent most of the time :joy:
In the same way, 4k PS wasn’t fun when it was beginner me with 4 rare wheels and 3 vectors against the 4 hover scorp colossus clan “pro-gamers” back when Scorp was 2400 PS.

I dunno, I think I’m not made for mp building games. 16yo me who wanted to be a god at CS and Quake 3 just can’t coexist with 7yo me who was making LEGO spaceships screaming “PEWPEWPEW” in his room :skull:

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I can do Four wheels, and I can do low PS. But forcing something to look like real life, I’m not really interested. Just like Doc is not interested in playing spaced armor.

But that’s OK, everyone does not need to want to play like everyone else, BUT I think the regular’s on the forum know each other enough to try to understand each other.

I did make this the other day :slight_smile:


It is 4699 PS and can do over 3500 damage to the damage ball :slight_smile:

Image below was testing damage to see if it was even worth my time. It does not have armor. After I make my builds I always post them for everyone.

I do make low PS builds, and I do enjoy playing low to mid PS in very small doses.

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Doc is good at this… I’m getting there.

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Anyway, ever played CCG or read about the theory behind it? There’s a very popular classification of CCG gamers, and I think it applies to XO really well.

Timmy wants the flashy stuff. He’s not interested in complex interactions, he just wants that 8 mana 15/15 drop that is “unstoppable”. It’s also unpractical af, but who cares? In XO’s terms, Timmy is that dude who’s playing a quad Goliaths Mammoths. It’s super big so it must be super cool, right?

Johnny’s all about going through his cards folder and coming up with funky stuff. Sometimes it’s genius and redefines the meta. Sometimes it’s clunky and shit but funny, and you can bet that it’s the deck Johnny’s going to use. In XO’s terms, Johnny is the dude who posts all the maths he did on that super awesome combo build that has bonkers DPS and he can’t afford because it uses the latest p2w weapon, then tries to make a chinese knock-off version of it with his budget.

Spike’s just here to win tournaments. He never created a deck himself, just dropped a case of cash online to buy the 20k dollars deck Johnny theorycrafted, then shows up in tourneys with it and wins big money, and probably gets caught in some massive cheating drama some years later. In XO’s terms… Well, I think you recognized those already xD

Everyone’s probably a bit of each, too.

Oh, and that’s just my take on it, but Timmy is the one who enjoys and loves the game the most. It’s okay if he loses. Each one of his victories is flashy. He rolls over his defenseless opponent just like he envisionned in his dreams, when he put that stupid 8 mana card in his deck. Johnny’s iffy on it. He loves the mechanisms of the game, but is always short on cards to truly realize his vision, and is a victim of the shitty “loot box” business model. Spike on the other hand, just doesn’t care about the game. It’s all about winning, not about having pleasure or even abiding to the rules. If the game crashes and burns, Spike will just “play” something else.

This 100% - I had to stop reading to post this :wink: lol

The game had soooo many options for high PS and then none…

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I owned a card store for a few years and played Magic competitively (on a local level) for many years.

I was a Jonny But I always had spikes wallet.

Hold on, let me take a picture of a few cars from my power 9 cube and post it :slight_smile: please hold… got to get a pic that you know it’s me.

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Hahaha I’m about to see 10k dollars worth of Magic cards, isn’t it?

I had a really brutal white/black clerc deck that rolled over my local club for some reason, before they changed their cards and made them butt-ugly with Mirrodin (?) in… 2003 (???) OMG that’s so long ago xD
I think they put that bonkers 4 mana 2/2 cleric who gains a shitload of attack for every cleric you have in the standard set. Put fear on this (easy af in black), bam next game :joy:

edit: Oh yeah, I remember now, it abused so many broken cards xD
Edgewalker to spit clerics like a madman turn 4, Whipgrass entangler to stall the opponent completely and prevent him from blocking, Vile Deacon for the burst, Starlit Sanctum to double-tap the opponent. That deck was so brutal and cheap lol. I also had a couple copies of that 2 mana black enchant that lets you give fear to a creature type :upside_down_face:

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I would like to add people like myself. My main motivation is in defying the odds. I can’t help myself, and people like me also struggle with it. The name is Oppositional Defiance Disorder, and there’s a lot of us. We often take it upon ourselves to push back against a perceived challenge. When someone say’s “It can’t be done,” around people like me, our sense to overcome the challenge is too great to ignore. Some don’t suffer too greatly from the disorder and are capable of giving up on the self-appointed task, after all, no one’s gonna suffer from it not being completed. However, when you get to people just like me, we do everything we can to make it happen and to show people just how wrong they are. A lot of the times this ends up blowing up in my…our faces, very badly. Leading to revealing the very balance issue that everyone is actually right about. Other times, and very rarely, it ends up working and pulling back the veil on something that everyone was missing. This ends up creating a new meta that fills the gap that everyone was shitting into. Kinda sorta leading to a God Complex.

Don’t forget us :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: :rofl:

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My collection is worth way more then that.

This image below is enough of a flex for most MTG players :slight_smile: if you know you know, if you don’t it’s just a few pieces of paper.

Well… for most people this one card blows their whole collection away.

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Basically, you are talking about the good old tier 8.
Too strong for tier 6 but at the same time too weak to face tier 10.
yeah, that made hundreds of forum pages…and it is a rabbit hole.

it’s a hard place to be, being in tier 8, cause with a MM -2 + 2 where 80% get’s to be down tier, T8’s cannot be buffed because of T6’s, so, they suffer in the "hands of T10’s and T9’s the great majority of the times.

All because of the mighty MM, it’s untouchable, neither the players or the devs wanted to mess with it…the result would be increasing the waiting times to enter battles.

Just to put in perspective
Bayern WWI battleship vs Bismarck
Bismarck vs Grosser Kurfürst ( the later one, megalomaniac project from disconnected minds)

Long story short and three years later and after many failed attempts tackling all but the problem, in the end, T8 was spared because they moved the problem to T9.

In crossout there’s also overlapping of different rarity weapons, and in crossout there’s also a MM -2 +2, sometimes the gap it’s even bigger than that.
Let’s see how things go

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sold my whole beta and 3rd edition collection about 7 years back. Fork was my fave card of them all.

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That totally counts for me, although I’m guessing you’re running 4ST wheels. Crossout is set in the future, so futuristic cars are fine!

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