its not the lack of experience that drives everyone away, its the lack of parts, letalone fused parts
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I donāt buy that.
First of all, you donāt need fused parts to have fun in Crossout, and with the fusing events, itās much cheaper to fuse the items you like (not to mention all the pre-fused items we get with passes).
Second, the free promotional packs make it much faster to get enough parts for a decent build.
I will agree that it takes too long to unlock the most useful structure parts, and those can make a huge difference.
This is my theory on how to help the game grow again:
They need to fight the perception of P2W more aggressively, and to me the biggest symbol of that is the pack system. When I hear about people spending hundreds (and in some cases thousands) of real dollars to get the parts they want, I see a real problem.
So what I would propose is to permanently get rid of packs, and focus completely on Battlepasses, Event Passes, and purchasable decor.
Those older pack-only items could be offered in the event passes, but I also think making all weapons/hardware/cabins/movement parts craftable would be good.
Let people unlock the levels of the BP factions the same way we do for the old factions.
Yes, the devs will lose some of that whale money, but the whales are one of the big things making the game unappealing to new players. Itās better business to sell cheap BPs to a larger number of players than to milk a smaller handful of players with expensive packs.
The other big change I would make would be to change the PS minimums of the various missions and raids to PS maximums, so that some modes would be consistently more friendly to newer low PS players.
For example, Get The Scrap could be locked to 5000 PS and below, as would easy raids. The more valuable the reward, the higher the PS limit.
Under this system, there would only be a few modes with no PS limit, but they would have much bigger rewards.
Not saying this would solve everything, but it would be a good start.
i dont think they even need to do this, packs themselves arent P2W.
the problem is that the items from packs are uncraftable, so you straight up cant get them.
if purchasable items were just pay-to-progress, it wouldnt be seen as P2W, but many items are unbalanced and the difference in power between weapon types and rarities is huge.
so they would need to balance everything (like actually balance for once), reduce the comical inflation of prices, make fuses (and any similar mechanics) less P2W, and generally make things (like relics, etc) more accessible.
what happens now is a player joins the game, has a horrible build, plays for a few hundred hours, gets onetapped by overpowered full-fused builds that probably cost many hundreds of dollars altogether and have like 5K more PS, and goes one of the two ways a new player could go: pay a shitton for a usable build, or quit
regardless of gameplay quality, their number 1 priority needs to be getting a lot more longterm players.
and for the record for targem, adding shit like mechs or helis is the opposite of what will achieve that.
same for hovercrafts, theyre cool and funny, yet unfortunately the game has not gotten even 1% more playable.
and also for the record, having a high quality popular game is a lot more profitable and sustainable than juicing a few whales for p2w items.
(at least thats my theory, maybe i underestimate the depravity of the playerbase ?)
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A Tale of Newer Players and Fusing
Newer player: āYay I got my first epic weapon! It was alot of work, but Iām happy!ā 
Vet player: āNice, but you really need at least a pair of them.ā
Newer Player: āOk, makes sense, thanks for the advice!ā
Some time laterā¦
Newer player: āOk! I got a pair of them now! I can compete with the older players in my ps range!ā
50 battles laterā¦
Newer player: ā50 straight losses! I thought a pair of these would make me competitiveā¦ā 
Vet player: āWell itās a good start, but you should fuse them.ā
Newer player: āYou mean I have to get four more to fuse the two that I have?!ā 
Four months laterā¦
Newer player: āOk, I finally fused both of my epic weapons, but Iām still not competitive.ā 
Vet player: āThatās because you didnāt fuse them for the best parameters.ā
Newer player: āWhatās the pointā¦Iām better off finding another game.ā 
And another newer player is gone.
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I donāt think that would actually work well, a player would have to keep more builds around to access resources. With how build spots are currently managed that can get rather expensive fast. It might be more feasible to do rarity restrictions within match maker but still keep the mode fairly open. i.e. try to fill the match with similar rarity and PS first.
A fair amount of the issues started as they moved into utilizing the BP system and expanded into the Event Passes. The over restriction of item blueprints I think would be one of the largest areas of discontent coming out of this.
As far as P2W and P2A goes this has been around since the start of pack sales. With the pack sales whales at least on PC can buy 6 versions of a pack. Itās not as bad on the consoles from what I understand I think they can only do 3. It use to be less 2 on PC and 1 on console. There is pretty much a purchasable option for everything in the game. This is just compounded by the Item blueprint restrictions.
This I would agree with.
It probably still would be, players like to complain anytime they lose a match.
I donāt think that really hurts but some people just donāt like them.
I think it has a little, packs with parts use to get fed into prestige levels, those all now go to badges which means new players can get advanced parts that they couldnāt before. The scout container at the end of an event pass is not hard to get and is a great way to get some coins at the start. They no longer charge you to open up a workbench before crafting. Iāve mentioned that before if you opened one up you use to pretty much have to grind out and sell 9/10 items to pay out opening it before keeping a part.
This is a big one but hard to do. The DPS vs Burst dmg vs AOE dmg alone can be hard. Thatās before getting to the issues in mobility.
They have a little but itās still dominated by clans. I still donāt have one but Iāve managed to pick up a little uranium that was not available to me before. So Iād say thereās still room for improvement but itās better then it was. Thereās a lower entry point to BFU then there really was for CW.
This to me is a big issue. However if they donāt fix the issue of crafting items get more players is just going to exacerbate the existing crafting issues that come with the item blueprint restrictions.
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I do not understand your logic here.
Pack-only items are currently easily obtained on the market, but the better ones often cost too much, because theyāve been made artificially scarce by only being available in packs.
Anyway, my proposal makes them craftable, which should reduce the huge price differences.
As far as pack items being P2W, itās true that most of them arenāt so powerful, but they are the quickest way to acquire enough coin to buy the P2W build you want, but at a very high price.
My thinking is that if you get rid of the expensive shortcut to a high end build, newer players wonāt feel like they need to spend big bucks to compete, and will hopefully stick around longer.
I do not share your belief that balance is the big problem, or that itās easily fixed. To me, itās good that some weapons are easy to use and some are tricky to use. Keeps the game interesting, and caters to a wider variety of players.
There are more viable competitive build types now than ever before, so I think weāre going in the right direction overall.
This only matters if we assume that most players craft all their items, and only use the resources they farmed. I donāt think this is true.
How I see it working is that newer players might only play modes that pay out scrap and copper, but they can always sell those resources to get higher tier items or resources.
Most experienced players arenāt going to bother having low PS builds, so theyāll mostly be playing for batteries (or whatever). If they really need some scrap, theyāll either buy it on the market or use badges.
I tend to use my own scrap, plastic and electronics, buy copper, plastic, batteries, wires. Plastic is kind of half and half. It kind of depends on what Iām doing though Iām normally not playing a lot of pvp outside of event brawls which eliminates batteries and wires. I normally do not sell a lot of my resources either unless Iām way over and have already crafted what I want from a BP which doesnāt happen often. Iām not a coinless player though but I donāt think what Iām doing is that uncommon.
āSaying this for the last Timeāā¦
Everygame needs an EndGameā¦
we need something to play to look forward tooā¦
thats all, have fun !!!
Sandbox games donāt normally work like that. If it was a FPS/RPG hybrid Iād agree with you but that actually would take making a game outside of the sandbox.
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Nice. Iāll remember it.
I used to craft almost everything, but forum members acted like I was crazy to do that. I go through phases now, where either I sell resources as soon as I get them, or I let them pile up and craft things.
Itās hard to tell what the majority of players do without seeing the stats. I definitely donāt think the forum is ever representative of the average player.
Anyway, because I switch back and forth, I feel confident saying it doesnāt really make a huge difference. People will adjust, and I think matchmaker problems and seal clubbing are big enough issues to make it worth considering ways of keeping new players away from veterans.
I donāt like the idea of restricting rarities, because I fear that will interfere in building creativity too much.
I do think that fusing an item should raise its PS somewhat, to reflect the increased power. Maybe a 15% PS bump if the item is fused?
I mean, we have this PS based matchmaking system, and then weāre able to bypass that and get an advantage through fusing. Doesnāt seem consistent to me.
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I sometimes buy but it depends on cost to craft estimates. I still generally donāt sell much off though in terms of recourses though. I use to rebalance their amounts sometimes but it was often selling to buy more expensive recourse.
Iām not saying to straight out restricting them as much as when mm flips through queād players to make a match they might yield priority to similar rarities or similar and lower. For example if I have 4 legendaries and 1 epic, 2 rares and am sitting at 7-8k which is fairly min for something like that it might push another a similar PS build with a more similar grouping of items into that match rather then myself. We are running as far as steam charts go with a 1/3rd of the player base from jan 1 last year. Iām just figuring they might have to make adjustments based on current player base to key MM in better. I know those charts arenāt the absolute given number for player base too just using it as a rough estimate.
I agree with that and have mentioned similar while not giving a figure for it. If it would work or not though depends on how close the matches are. It might make CC and BFU a little more fair as it could remove some top-end builds from competing. Iām not sure if it would help a lot in general pvp though as the matches tend to be off a bit more PS range. I would think it might help a little though especially as Item PS increases across rarity by default. Instead of a percentage a hard number could be used though too instead. That would get rid of the issue of not increasing the ps value by much for items that are nominally low in PS. Similarly they could do static number + percent which would also work without that low ps issue.
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I think the RU player base is robust if you go to bed early and wake up early. You get short queue times and tight matchmaking. Maybe the game is only dying in the USA, and they do not have to change a thing.
I play mornings sometimes itās not bad.
for gameplay itself, mechs and helis dont hurt, but they ruin the image of the game to people who dont know what the core of crossout is about.
i doubt anyone will want to touch a roblox-looking identityless mess like this, with random helicopter and mech abominations on all the posters.
but of course thats subjective and gameplay quality matters more than this
i think its very easy to fix most balance issues, because they are caused by obvious differences in build types. for example, make relics more in line with other rarities, nerf close range weapons.
most other items are relatively well balanced apart from certain āmoney-making stuntsā that wouldnt be hard to weed out
the fact that nobody will get any relics F2P still remains. uranium has hardly gotten more accessible, and prices of everything else have also gone up, so even if uranium is cheaper, it still cancels out when crafting
and even if they increased uranium rewards by a lot, BFU and CW is still a complete circus because of a lack of balancing and the incomprehensible arbitrary timer that toggles the mode randomly (not to mention BFU gets replaced by CC, and the existence of leviathan CW)
this means P2W items need to get fixed, rather than to remove the source of coins to buy it.
i dont see a reason to take away a players ability to make the horrid financial choice of buying their way to top tier, but top tier needs to be balanced and cannot guarantee a win over lower PS builds (or rather it simply shouldnt play against them)
i implore you to play CW and see how you do against relics and dog builds.
this isnt a matter of diversity, its overpowered meta everywhere.
its barely even gameplay, more like a social experiment to see how far the meta devolves.
another thing that would need to be resolved is targem blatantly pulling money out of peoples pockets by releasing textbook P2W weapons, like raijin or custom elephant.
again, its almost like a social experiment to see how much sheer bullshit the community tolerates (and buys into), and apparently they arent close to crossing the line yet.
If they donāt know what the core of crossout is about how can it ruin it for them? Short answer is it doesnāt, they would have to already have an image in mind for that to happen. The only people really bent out of shape over it image wise are people that had been playing the game already for a while with the idea that it was an alternative Mad Max type of world. Mad Max even had a Gyrocopter in it. As far as mech legs go we already had other types of legs.
I wouldnāt go tossing them all together for every mode but having them together for some modes I donāt think is a big issue.
If you did this DMG to DMG between the types people would quickly complain that cannons and similar burst dmg weapons are too strong. A pair of arbs and an aroura on a photon can output into the 5k+ dmg area in 10 seconds. If you let cannons do that they would 2 shot most builds which would be great for realism but sucky for players fighting against them as they could do that across the map.
If they really wanted to balance everything they have to look at the build as a whole and assess the bonus viability PS it should receive. i.e a cab like photon with fire weapons would be have a higher PS than one without. Same with cannons with reloaders on reloading cabsā¦
They just had to buff a bunch of them because of poor performance and you want to nerf them again?
Most players donāt have relics even when they pay. They are just too expensive.
Personally I think they need more ways to increase the casual playability of the game. BFU and CW is fairly focus around more seasoned players. Right now the bigger issue is figuring out how to fix player retention.
āno one needs relicsā there is no end gameā¦
create an End Game for these āRelicsā
i never seen a game that has no ending !!
cmon Devsā¦try something new !
lol like feeding the whales has worked out so well for the rest of the game.