Buzzsaws, their damage dealing area is so much more worse compared to the borer, to the point that they don’t deal any damage when you could swear they should be making some kind of contact with the enemy, as opposed to the borers that actually deal damage at almost any angle.
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Waltz no longer feels like a legendary after the overall nerf to all explosive weapons, especially missiles, with the new armor change and removal of hit damage or missile impact damage or whatever it was that they gave across the board for all missiles. It was never mind boggling with damage, but now it does even worse, and couples with bad hp it just isn’t that great anymore
Helicon probably suffers from the same problem, they already are buffing the cricket because it started to suck ever worse after the overall missile nerf but they should look at the waltz as well
I haven’t played Waltz or Locust since the new update but have been playing Helicons regularly. Helicons don’t have problems with bullet damage because they have a bullet damage penetrating missile that goes before the heating missile and the explosive missile. The upshot is that every Helicon double volley does about 850 damage unless something pops on the opponent.
I don’t think that Waltz has any penetration damage so I don’t know how it is hitting. I know that Waltz is having a hard time against Helicon because the accuracy and durability differences are huge between the two weapons. Helicon carries a tight spread to about 400 meters while Waltz falls apart after about 250. In addition, Waltz has a half second of charge time, while Helicon has none. In close range fights, Helicon is dominating for that reason.
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I tried an old waltz build for a little while this week, and they still feel reasonably good.
It doesn’t feel like the penetration changes made a huge difference with them.
I know many don’t like them, but they’ve always worked ok for me.
I don’t love the charging mechanic, but the spiral flight path doesn’t bug me that much, except when all my missiles hit the ground.
Back when they had impact, or bullet or shell whatever damage, that they removed from all missiles with the armor change update, it felt to me that they drilled way better into a build if you were accurate enough.
But now with today’s updates Cricket buff Crickets are now way more better than Waltzes
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crickets are good again
I think that people have not played Rippers much if they say they are Special weapons. They are FANTASTIC against dog builds, the new/old meta. People place their generators under cabin for protection, but a good hit with Rippers, and its gone. Hadron, king do about 600 damage a shot and shoot quick. Not great against hovers but can still strip weapons well at close range. They RULE in Levi wars, but that another thing again…They are Relics for sure.
When they came out, I laughed at them… They truly were terrible. Whatever buffs they made seems to have at least made them viable. I’m seeing them more, and actually have had to learn how to deal with them when I run across the odd player who knows how to use them.
BTW, that tactic is reverse. LOL
Threshers feel like a special weapon all around rather than an epic one. You can spam them for hours at a build and do absolutely no damage, and they have as much survivability as an Emily.
Absolutely underperforming all around
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I brought it up a long time ago and sent it to the developers in a suggestion, but they acted like they didn’t see it
Pretty sure the suggestions box leads straight to their bin 
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I’m going to have to agree here.
I want to believe that they listen and something it feels like things line up with comments.
But at the end of the day I truely think they are just doing what they want to do and it just happens to line up.
I would have to guess that most changes that match up to a persons request are all just luck.
But who knows 
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Or internal numbers tell the same story and they are looking at internal numbers.
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This is most likely it.
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They must have deliberately ignored parts of the data, like the missile turrets, which I’ve said many times are obviously trash.
Purposefully ignored. Or the data doesn’t back up our in game perception.
Some of it probably has to do with… what the devs themselves are playing imho.
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The Thresher really has nothing going for it, usually when a gun does not do much damage, at least has hp and survivability, or if it has wet paper hp, it usually deals at least some damage, but on the Thresher nothing seems to be going right
In fact I think that the weapon itself might be bugged, for example the Impulse does way better when you have each gun on a different button and tap fire altering between the two, rather than just having both guns on one button and holding it down, almost as if the explosions start canceling each other out if you don’t purposely shoot at a slower pace. Kind of like the Nests, and how you can launch around a bazillion spread on top of a build, but then one explodes and seemingly the rest’s explosions are blocked from actually reaching the enemy. I sometimes suspect that the Thresher suffers from the same problem, where the explosions happen at a way too rapid pace for the game, causing most of your Thresher grenades to hit nothing and explode at thin air, almost as if every third bullet actually hits the build with their explosion rather than each and every one. It might even be that explosion radius increase with fusions or harpy might cause the thresher bullets explosions to sometimes block one another from hitting the enemys parts rather than the explosion of the previous bullet
Or then the gun just plain out sucks such major balls that it just feels like that
The trasher was set up by the developers to be an epic version of the retcher, and it does that with its size and durability, but the damage isn’t threatening enough.If I see a retcher in a fight, I get nervous and try to deal with them, but when I run into a trasher, I laugh in my mind at the fact that there are still idiots out there with trasher!
I think it should be given a perk similar to retcher, with more damage the further away you are, reduced accuracy, and has a longer overheat time and shorter cooldown.
Right,
Like the Nothung. It doesn’t do much damage, and it takes 2 coolers or radiators with 14 points of energy, and it doesn’t have much durability, but this is balanced out because the gun is extremely bunkerable based on its shape, it has excellent range and extremely tight spread for a machine gun that make Nothung a fantastic weapon.
Thresher has bad shape, low HP, low range, is high maintenance with ammo boxes and coolers that put you in a higher power score range than they are competent and isn’t a world destroying nuke like the Retcher.
Nothungs are seen all over clan wars and outrange and outstrip Punishers and Arbiters at range. They are universally considered good guns that can rival Punishers and Arbiters. This isn’t because they take 14 energy and only hit 2700 on the damage meter. Punishers hit 3100 on the meter and Arbiters hit 4300. Nothungs have to have something going for them or they wouldn’t be good.
On Nothungs, if you hold the button down and fire continuously, the largest bloom reticle is much tighter than Punishers, meaning Nothungs can be a continuous fire weapon. If you tap fire, the bloom reticle gets larger more slowly than Punishers and tightens up more quickly. Nothungs are more accurate than Punishers in all respects. I disagree.
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