We're getting one balance patch and 10 packs/year, aren't we?

This patch test/preview is lasting longer than the first BP did years ago, and at this rate, we should probably not expect a second balance patch in 2023, right?


Well… to be far they have been balancing the game every patch.

I’m glad they are taking their time with this one. A cannon rework, if done wrong, has the potential of destroying the game. This is the first time they have tested something this many times, so I hope they are trying to get it right.

My fear is they will still get it wrong and then all of a sudden after a major cannon update we are going to get the 1337 I PWN everyone with my Skillzors dudes back in the forums.

I’m sure if all of a sudden cannons become good again, no one is going to be like “hmmmm maybe this patch made me OP.” Lol, it’s going to be all
Skill baby :wink: give me a break.


Yeah I have that feeling they’ll deliver something god awful and let it rot for 8 months. Kinda like Supercha- I mean, this game is good, haha don’t ban me Targem, I really enjoyed getting all these BPs and packs while your game’s balance was going down in flames for half a year.


They do seem to let things be OP in cycles.

You need to give everyone a chance to fuse everything up before you nerf it :wink:

What I don’t understand is…

Hovers have been broken af since ages. Heavy cabs have been hot garbage since ages. Tracks have been hot garbage since ages…
Nobody at Targem stopped a second and thought that maybe, buffing these whole aspects of the game that are left to rot, alienating huge portions of their playerbase, would generate massive market activity and make people burn unholy amounts of coins to the market gods?
Because nobody’s gonna sell fused hovers no matter how OP or not they are. Because… They’re fused. They’ll just… Y’know… buy tracks and heavy cabs.

I just don’t get it >_> It seems so stupid from every pov. marketing, player retention, game’s balance…


Tracks have not really ever had their time to shine yet. Small tracks maybe a little, heavy tracks waaaaaaay back in The day with Mammoth meta, and then the track down the middle of a spider build.

But with the upcoming addition to perks on tracks I think they are heading in that way.


Seems so.

But what did you expect?

Some look good, others are dubious. I’m torn on the one that buffs armor parts for example. yeah it’s cool, especially since somehow tracked builds have the lowest cab dura out there (just Targem things…)… But then again the problem with tracked builds is that you get degunned and tracked in 3 seconds by any heating/energy weapon so… Buffing everything but the tracks and weaps themselves, duh…

I think Tracks should just refund half their mass as Mass limit. Your track weights 1 ton? Ok cool, have +500 mass limit so you can actually be the tank instead of just being slow. Then give em perks that actually help them instead of giving them perks that try to do what their stats fail to do.

Sleipnirs def get a good perk and might become decent. They already had some great stats to begin with.

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This has always been the biggest balancing issue with movement parts in general.

Because once your guns are gone your dead, it don’t mater if you have 5k health.

With Omni directional movement parts you can kind of pick what part of your build is going to take the damage by rotating, with other movement parts that is much harder.


They have been balance changes included in the launch (and during) of the BP’s.

Perhaps we are looking at the BP notes and not the full patch notes idk.

I would rather see lots of testing on big changes, and small amounts of small changes in small patches instead of three or four game destroying patches each year.

Here’s the history of OP relics from my perspective:

Fall 2019 to Spring 2020 Typhoon stun lock perk. Typhoon hits make your car lose all power for 3 seconds. You would get whole teams running this and killing everything. Typhoon hits also used to hurt back then. The meta builds were Icebox or Echo hovers with Typhoons. This meta was broken up by taking Typhoon’s perk away and nerfing its damage.

2020 Breaker is King. 2 Breeakers would be with 4 Seals on a Favorite Cabin, which worked then like the Huginn cabin works nowadays but you could turn it on or off. Drivers used an inverted train plow for a wedge and would drive under everything and push it around. The only thing beating Breakers was Kapkans and Porcs, usually on an Echo hover. This meta was broken up by nerfing Seals effects on shotguns and nerfing the Favorite cabin into the ground. Porcs were broken up by nerfing Kapkans repeatedly and adding Argus and Interceptor.

2021 to August 2022 Flash is the best relic. It freezes builds and a Spark and a Flash effects stack for double freezing effect. Because of this, Fire dogs ruled. This meta was broken up by nerfing Flash, nerfing the stacking effects of Flash and Spark. The good build is a Flash, 2 Firebugs and a Blight cabin usually on Hermits. This was resolved by making hovers so fast that fire dogs have trouble catching them. Also, the Kami cab is a get out of Flash free card.

Summer 2022 Breaker Omamori meta (sort of) Breakers, with invincibility perk and Omamori and Grizzly don’t fall off and the cab had nearly unlimited durability. My Four Porc echo build had trouble taking down one of these things.

Fall 2022 to present Punisher meta. Do to the wussiness of cannons and the speed and acceleration of Icarus VII, machine gun hovers rule, especially Punishers. Aspects and Nothungs are nearly as good.

Honestly, out of all of these metas that I have been involved with, the Breaker Wedge meta was the least annoying because at least teams had counterplay options in that they could use the Kapkan to stop the Breaker horde.

The Punisher meta isn’t that bad all things considered. Its annoying and overpowering, but it isn’t impossible to beat a Punisher build. Also, there are cheap and readily available legendary alternatives. Arbiters hit harder than Punishers and Nothungs have better spread and more range.

Scorpions have always been near the top of every list, but they never have been the clear number 1 build.

As is, Jormungandr and Mastodons have never had their toxic day in the sun. Rippers are currently king of Levi wars followed by Flash and Porc. Maybe Jorms are the next big thing with the new Kronus cab and Pegasus engine.

Maybe Mastodons will finally be top notch after the spaced armor nerf.

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Really? If so, it’s another con to uselessness of CW and relics in general.

Here’s the machine gun breadown:

2 Reapers: 2500 on damage meter
5 Imps 1 fused seal: 3800 on the damage meter
3 Aspects 1 fused Shiver: 2700 on the damage meter for script key cheaters, 2200 for ordinary players.
5 Vindicators 1 fused seal: 3000 on the damage meter.
4 Arbiters, 2 fused Seal 4000 on the damage meter.
3 Nothungs 2 fused Shivers 2700 on the damage meter.
3 Punishers, 1 fused Seal 3100 on the damage meter.

While Punishers are middle of the pack for damage, their durability spread and ease of use is what keeps them top. In addition, they don’t need much cooling so they have free energy to be used for things besides guns. Arbiters have poor durability, Imps have poor durability and spread but huge up front damage, Vindicators have poor spread and high overheat. Reapers lack hitscan and shoot projectiles but otherwise these would be top notch as they leave open 4 energy, Nothungs and Aspects have low durability and don’t do huge amounts of damage, Arbiters are touchy and only work if they can spool up at the right times and do so undisturbed.

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after holding the trigger for 10 seconds and with a dreaful accuracy, yeah.

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They have bigger spread than Millers and Reapers and even Arbiters. And they are gigantic. How do you hide them? Spaced armour with portholes? Dog build? Same can be done with any MG.

I dunno, I try them on sphere and all I see is meh. Giving they require tap fire from you, only Miller along with them has “number of hits” requirement. Others have different combat styles; Imps and Arbiters are better on close or mid range.

I’ll pick my Nothungs over Punishers any day. I like Punishers only because they look nostalgic.

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Do you guys not have “V” hovers/bigrams on your platform?

All these guns are easy to hide. Unless your the guy slapping them on top of your build.

You pretty much have to shoot through 3/4 of the build to get to the guns.

Or 2 whirls and 2 vindi - 3521 damage

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Punishers hit a lot harder than other tap mgs except Imp and they have a lot more durability but I agree with you. Nothungs have more range, tighter spread and are extremely small. I never played mgs except Reapers and Vindicators before Nothung. They have been some of my favorite weapons.

Vindicators are disappointing because they have awful spread and low damage. Reapers are Reapers. They are more about the modules you pack with them than the gun itself.

Nothung deguns everything but takes 14 energy for meh damage.

Punisher also generally deguns everything, but Nothung is just smaller and harder to degun so it win even against punisher when its punisher vs nothung.

Tho generally punisher is best mg there, just in this case it loose. Ofc it can just focus other parts when fighting it.

100 more durability. It’s a trade-off since they are gigantic.

generally they feel like slightly buffed legendary MGs. Their price/distinctiveness ratio seems off. Frankly, only rippers and mastodonts feel like real relics. Others are meh.