So if someone suggests balance adjustments, can I just say that if you want to win or score more points, you should play with weapons better suited for pvp - those meta designs instead of supporting the balance adjustments?Raids are also a mode in the game
No, but if someone suggested banning a weapon in PVP I would have a problem with that.
I also don’t want the game to ban weapons in pvp, pve too, I mean a separate balance which is much better than banning weapons
i need to say a few things.
the reason retchers are so good in raids is because of their high damage and explosive damage output. its easy for them to hit parts that are explosive and they can strip off tons of armor and deal alot of explosive damage in an area. the longer their range the more damage they do. often times when i play i always come in second place, retchers deal more then double the damage that i do. for example id deal 25k damage but the retcher user would do around 50 - 62k damage. i run 2 porcs and 2 arbiters and im happy with the synergy the both of those have together. ive run retchers before and it takes a bit of practice but i score stupidly high as well.
honestly it wouldnt be so bad if your scores were as one instead of competing for high scores and resources. now more often then not im running into team mates that just rush through the level, not fighting anything, then as soon as we are able to take the crate to the boss in perimeter breach they just grab it and gun it for the boss. they leave us to deal with the enemies while they try to steal the boss kill or do alot of damage while we are distracted. theres not much in terms of team work anymore.
porcs do ALOT of damage if you have more then 3. i find anywhere from 3 - 5 to be unfair because at that point they are just point hogging. i come across a few porc users just spamming porcs that run 3 - 5 of them at a time and getting in the way constantly to steal points.
arbiters dont do bad in raids but they arent the best. they dont out damage things like retchers and 3+ porcs. cyclones can do a ton of damage to but they arent that bad.
idk… i get why your upset with retchers and i was as well to a point. if you want to hear something really frustrating i ran into a match where 3 team mates were using 2 retchers each… yeah not fun. still though i got a laugh out of it just for the absurdity 
I didn’t I just took the part of what you said that I could use to bolster what I was saying, misread my post when I said they should change the raids and not ban stuff?
You do know that can be seen as promoting trolling of said individuals who use weapons and parts you don’t like, as that’s the only viable way to hinder their progress, and I see enough petty trolling in raids as is for that very reason!
I’m not saying you’re promoting trolling but for some people that will be the first thing to pop into ones mind!
Oh, I hate that, but that happens in all the modes, people stopped paying attention to how to operate your vehicle after pushing W to move forward and didn’t stick around for space bar = brakes and s = reverse!
Howlinwolf is a completely different person, the only suspension I had was earlier this year for 5 days on the forum, never had an in-game suspension, and my in-game name is the same as my forum name, so wrong person, but I do get people randomly mistaking me for Howlinwolf and even met him a few times
You thought right, I may be rough around the edges but not nearly as rough as Howlinwolf
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Pretty funny because it’s accurate. I played LoL for too long before playing XO for too long, and youcould guess with 95% certainty who was going to be a angry douchebag just by looking at the characters they’d pick 
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Like an Ash/Jaeger in R6 or a Genji/Widow in OW lol…
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I feel like the main reason retchers and Porcs perform so well in raids is the abundance of explosives on raid vehicles.
Get rid of some of those explosive parts and balance should feel more similar to PVP.
However, I suspect that if you made raiders less explosive, people will complain that their weapons don’t shred through raiders like they used to.
I’m ok either way. If they made raiders less explosive, I would probably see if I could get harvesters to work in raids.
Currently, melee is less than useless in raids.
I ran into a group just like that too all in fairly fast builds too. Was one of the most boring FD raids I’ve ever been on. I think I scored a quarter of what I normally do. Had I not been running cyclones I probably would have scored even less. I ended up mostly just sitting around shooting into the 3 of them as they swarmed the spawn points as I chuckled to myself I wish I could turn on friendly fire.
As far i’m concerned, i’m now tackling in another perspective, the market isn’t for me.
currently i’m doing almost exclusively raids focusing mainly in plastic and coper and doing the dailies if they are coming my way, if not i don’t do it.
My sessions right now are substantially smaller.
My newest build is surprisingly comfortably or resistance to grind.
So it’s not about scoring the highest or the lowest, it’s about consistency
Again, if you demand consistent rewards from any mode, it’s up to you to make a build that can accomplish this, and play at a consistent level. Even then, you will still come up against players who are better than you and who have better builds, and you will score a bit lower.
Expecting to have a consistent payout every raid or mission is just not realistic.
See, the way you phrase it is exactly what people complain about. No, someone isn’t “better than you” because he brought Retchers and Porcs, and that’s exactly the problem with everything in this game, from raids to CW: You don’t need to be better than anyone, you just need to bring a god-rolled fused best-in-slot weapon and YOU WILL outscore people who are playing way better than you are.
“But you can’t balance a game with so many weapons!”
LoL has legit 5 times more champions than this game got legendary and relic weapons, +summoner spells, +runes; And it’s not a quarter as fucked up as XO. In fact, it has one of the biggest e-sports scenes, so this argument isn’t recevable.
The truth is, this is by design, to bait whales and have a small but extremely financially irresponsible playerbase hooked.
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Like I said, I haven’t done hardly any raids this year, but as far as easy raids are concerned, I was actually experiencing the opposite of this dynamic. That is, I would enter raids with the most minimal of builds (a Thug with two rapiers a Hardcore, and Racing Wheels, and little else at under PS 3K), scored higher and consistently pulled a much higher reward, than if I went in there with anything more OP than that. A win that way, using a minimal build, rather than a crutch build, was worth considerably more.
I should go try one again, just for the sake of “science,” since I haven’t done one in at least 6 months.
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lowest PS allowed used to be a thing, because of bots scaling with your PS. Haven’t played raids in so long tho, I have no idea how it is now.
Assuming PS scaling is still a thing, that would be an example of an optimized raid build.
If it gives you the scores you want, it’s optimized.
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IDK. That’s an unusual way to look at it, I think. To me it’s like having the difficulty cranked up.
I tried a couple, but the matchmaker didn’t allow for much of a PS spread. Normally in PVP, I would prefer this, but that’s never what happens there. For those two raids I wasn’t at any particular disadvantage, because everybody else’s PS was about the same…so much for that exploit.
What I did learn is, raids are boring AF, and I’m tired of those same maps. I won’t do that again any time soon. Two was more than enough. I’m done with that, which is yet one more feature in this game that I ignore.
They need to back off the monetization a little and add some actual fun to this game, but it seems like they always have to add some BS to everything that essentially ruins the fun. It’s like a game that is always almost entertaining but instead ends up frustrating.
I realize I’m supposed to buy my way into proper fun with the Visa, but that’s not going to happen. I’m not spending schit on addictive vices…well, my whiskey is expensive, but it’s honest about what it is and it delivers. They don’t play stupid exchange-rate games at the check-out counter, and they won’t come water down my stasch in the middle of the night for enjoying it too much, so they can sell me a full strength version later. Consumerism doesn’t really work that way.
This game is steeped in anti-consumer predatory BS, and it’s hard for me to blame people for cheating back, or using exploits to make things work. It makes the game less enjoyable for us when they do, but I can hardly call it “unfair,” in this game environment. I find I have to constantly game the game to make it work too. It’s more me vs the developers than me vs the other players, and I find I am usually either exploiting the matchmaker or it’s exploiting me, or some similar dynamic.
If we’re talking about raids, to me “optimized” just means whatever gives you the scores you are looking for.
I’ve never owned retchers, so my “optimized” raid builds were usually miniguns and an aurora, as I knew I could depend on that to get a reasonably good score, and would give me enough firepower to finish a raid if my teammates all have weak raid builds.
Currently I am doing no traditional raids, and instead clear my raid challenges with Invasion. That mode needs a different kind of optimization, so I’m running an Acari, an incinerator, and a jobukko on a blight/omniwheel build. It would be useless in PVP or in raids, but works very well with invasion. I’m often the lowest PS player, and often the highest scoring player. Should Acari be banned from Invasion? Or incinerators and blight? Isn’t a big part of building about finding these good combos for certain tasks?
I’m getting my copper from chopper Patrols, myself, and don’t bother with raids anymore either.
And ya, I’ve found I like to build for the occasion too. Sometimes for effectiveness, sometimes just to survive, and other times just for the fun factor. I find different modes require different efficiencies.
I don’t think we need to start banning weapons from this or that, and I think it’s an ill conceived notion. There are better ways to deal with the problem. Simply putting a ceiling on power-scores for low and medium difficulty raids would probably help. I’m actually a little surprised they allow players into easy raids with a PS of 12K. It seems like a really stupid situation on a few different levels.
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I think there are two reasons why they don’t do that:
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Not enough players, so it would lead to long queue times.
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It’s a cooperative mode, so they don’t see it as something that needs balancing in the same way as a competitive mode like PVP. I think they want us to see our teammates as friends, not enemies.
Adding a point counter was probably counterintuitive in that regard. It definitely made it more competitive, turned it into dick-mode, and rinsed a lot of the fun right out of it immediately after it was added.