It is called the bell curve and everything exists in a range, like kolliak said your gonna have a very narrow range for just about everything. The tow is at the top of that range at nearly 53%
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You are using whataboutism right there but I will intertain.
those are OP, and that is something I was trying to point out earlier. but you said “That is whataboutism.” and disregarded it, so thank you for coming around ti it. Thsoe are OP.
Also don’t insult the art build 
it is a freaking art built. my only comp themed tow uses tank tracks and had the tow center low mounted with specialized placement to stop scorps.
And I don’t play CC and CW.
Ah there we go, that is why I wasn’t viewing it right, I Wasn’t looking at it like a bell curve. looking at it that way it is still in an acceptable area though. For what it is designed to be.
One thing both of you are missing even though it has been said many times.
the tow is a meta killer weapon, its redesign was designed to specificly deal with meta builds.
It has a tandum warhead that deals 150 impact damage then 150 explosive, which means if hte part it hits has less then 150 HP it goes through to the next part, and the next until that is done then explodes.
this hard counters spaced armor and most meta armoring techniques but is beaten I kid you not by brick or compact armor.
There is also how its damage works, with a fully buffed catalina, jackie, Jay, tow being able to do deal 1450 pure damage per shot but that brings you at min 11k PS. that is with as much legendary energy costing boosters as you can.
but a none buffed one in standard 9k match does on average 350 damage per hit with only a few minor boosts.
This means it is designed around higher PS being stronger. so it can take out its targets. A tow in CC isn’t really a threat, a tow in CW is dangerous, and you really should take that cut in either having a counter weapon, or if the stats show what I believe they show, use a whirle to destroy the projectile.
On a note, The best way to counter a tow from destroying you when it hits, is space out your explosives deep inside and use high health compact parts and bumpers. heavy builds counter it to the point it isn’t even worth shooting at them.
you can even see that in the poorly edited video. most the kills are either weakened by team mates, or hovers with juicy explosives.
The tow is a crit seeker meta counter. don’t give it a crit to seek.
Anyway from the bellcurve I can see one relics need some down tuning, and two MGs really need a buff holy crap the hitscan removal hurt them.
Granted I think the harmonizer will offset that, which is an annoying create a problem and sell the solution.
Seriously MGS really need a buff, those are the main thing that counters tow as they can destroy the projectile with little risk and can shred the launcher with ease.
I am guessing that is why the reaper is still meta as it can crit seek with its pierce and counter projectiles like the tow, as well as having the HP to survive things like raijin attacks.
Also, WN8 in WoT works like that.
<46% and 64%< is cut out because there’s no point of tracking, for example, 0.5% of players that are either that good or that bad? 99.5% of players will be inside of 46-64% range.
Same is for LoL and Dota 2. In LoL someone with 52% WN will be OP. In Dota 2, 58% WN will be also OP, much like here.
This dude probably either lied about working in the balancing departament or doesn’t work on MOBAs / MMOs.
I should state, I am not meaning to argue with you guys. this is more a debate.
All it shows me is MGS really really need a buff.
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No. It’s meta because you can put daze on it and degun everyone if you have two daze reaper builds. This works well against spiders but augers will just demolish you, because augers can be used as a backup melee weapon. This is why spiders also have augers in their pack.
Also, this is why narwhals are having a surge in popularity. Augers have insane DMR, narwhals remove that DMR because they’re of a cryo type.
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Ah, that makes sense. I thought their pierce and ability to just suddenly blow up an internal fuel tank was why.
As stated I don’t play CW and CC. I play the standard 8v8 mode, where the tow is in a rather good place. and you always have at least one counter build someone is running.
right now though I think I see the problem. the tow by design is a “meta counter” and in a mode where everyone plays the meta… it is going to be OP.
To clarify here is the problem.
in CW/CC you need to play the meta to have a chance of winning if you play off meta you are just screwing yourself over.
The tow requires someone to play off meta to beat it, and if you do so you beat it with ease but you are now off meta and making your team down one to beat a threat that could kill your team completely. which makes it effectively a 3v4 for the fight even if you get the tow, it still has time to hit you.
This is do to its design as an artillery ranged weapon.
the best way to fix this would be I kid you not just reducing the guided flight time by 2 seconds. (I would say one but fused tows would undo that.)
Hope I am making sense with that, It is hard for me to articulate my words some times.
But right now I think the best way to fix the “tow OP” in clan would be to either do a guided flight time nerf, or buff MGs to give it an on meta counter.
Look me and you and just about everyone else on this forum are solely pvp players with a pvp mindset. Now I can recognize skill or someone with unique relevant experience when I see it so having kolliak(cant spell name) join the forum recently gave me some new insight into why the things works the way they do currently.
Now I don’t agree with all his points and If I see something wrong with what he say’s I will correct it because I do have some unique experience or certain insights that he prob don’t have but for the most part this dude knows what he is talking about and for all of us solo pvp bums on the forum to make him out like some kind of newb seems laughable to me(hell the dude got 2k subscribers on yt in case you didn’t know)
With that said In my updated opinion I think the tow is op everywhere across the board even in cc. Don’t ask me why! I just knows just like how some of the best guitar players don’t know they’re music theory but still knows what they are doing etc that kind of thing. But anyways we should take what kolliak says with much more than a grain of salt or we can stay ignorant in our echo chamber.
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Thing is in 8v8 the tow isn’t OP like at all. Think most players have a bellow average win rate with it do to how it plays and how often flanking and counter builds are seen.
Also I don’t care about youtube or any of that. I care about how one h olds themselves. And they are showing more extreme views that show me they are not to be trusted. they act like the reddit mods who complained something UP was OP for so long it got nerfed into the ground repeatedely until it was useless.
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Wow that’s actually great and somewhat surprising. Maybe because i’ve got used to toxicity in the CIS / eastern european forum…
Actually, some of my friends did show me this forum (i though that all crossout forums got closed, turns out that it’s just the CIS one) laughing at some takes here. I’ve helped some less skilled players before so one day i just decided to pop in here and clear some things up.
What’s also funny is that my clan literally has the description that’s along the lines of “SHEEP REEDUCATION / TRAINING CENTRE”. It sounds much more rude in English though, but it’s more tongue-and-cheek in my native language lol.
Hmmm, maybe i should make an english channel too and post more tips/tricks here for people who want to play more competetively.
Well, what’s better?
- item is average in one mode but in the rest it’s bad
- item is op in one mode but in the rest it’s average
Depending on which type of game you’ve balanced (MOBA, MMO, singleplayer, genre - it all makes a different answer more appropriate) you’ll have a different answer.
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Seeing as 90% of the playerbase plays patrol and standard 8v8. (seriously to many people play just patrol.)
I would say it being balanced in standard 8v8 is better. Right now we are in the middle of a meta shift, and it shouldn’t take long before people find ways to counter the tow with out weakening themselves to other things… they just have to experiment and improve.
It’s actually universal across all of crossout audience. We (as eastern european crossout players) don’t use reddit but this mindset is also there.
You just need to know me more to understand what i’m talking about. And it will be impossible to know me if you just deny anything i say.
Wanna know why my views are so extreme? Buckle up then. Just to name a few things:
-
Do you remember retcher dogs that also had their hit check be only a single tracer, so you can literally put them into a 1-pin wide gap and they’d shoot no problem, with their grenades phasing through your build? Somewhere in 2019 i’ve said that this was a bug that should be nerfed and i’ve got witch hunted by a few people for, like, 3 years or so?
-
Do you remember arbiter sausage builds? I’ve said that they’re OP. One of the best sausage clans (KTM) invited me to play these builds, saying that “i wouldn’t be even able to leave the tin league”.
I’ve joined them and i was one of the best players in their clan (with no past experience on sausage builds and with lots of unfused parts).
They kicked me short after because i refused to praise the sausage build and still said it was OP. -
I always said that scorpios are OP. Because of this people once again witch hunted me said that “i’m way to lowskilled to play scorpio myself”.
I’ve bought scorpio, joined a random clan and absolutely DEMOLISHED everyone i’ve met.
After this everyone who said “show us how you play scorpio then, you wouldn’t lolololol!!!” dissapeared or found 15481295819 reasons why i’m still wrong “because you were in only top-33 and not top-1!!! if scorpios are OP then why you aren’t top-1 yet!!!” e.c. e.c. -
I’m still saying that hovers are OP. I have more than 8k CW battles purely on hovers and farmed at least 2000 uranium ore on them. People, as you’ve guessed, witch hunted me because of that (mainly hovermains).
-
I’m saying that spiders and augers are OP now… getting the pattern yet?
I have every single reason to be salty about this tbh
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And i’ve just scratched the surface because there were so many situations that will take hours to explain.
Remember the return of the machines (or whatever it was called in english locale), aka that winter 2023-2024 event?
Well, there were guys that got to top-4 in the leaderboard. And they’ve published lots of fake builds on the exhibition (naming them like “TOP-1 EVENT META”) to sabotage others.
I’ve leaked their REAL builds and team composition. They said that “our ‘real’ composition is a fake used to bait you!!! and you’ve got baited lololololol!!!” trying to paint me as an idiot lmao.
Then they release the footage 2 weeks later and the “fake composition” turns out to be a real deal.
Just to give you a slight inside into what shit i’ve been dealing with in this game and why i don’t bother anymore with “non-extreme views”.
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BTW, this is also happening in the BfU now. If you paid attention on what i’ve been posting here, you’d probably remember that we got top-20 in the recent 11k BfU. We had a good WN against EQWS (around 65%). They were using at least 3 whirl dogs in their pack composition.
Aaaand they’ve also published lots of fake builds, that they haven’t used once against us, to sabotage others… Reapers, cyclones, mammonths, nests etc.
These people are also paint me as a “low-skill tin league player” BTW ;))))) for some reason i’m winning against people that paint me as a low skill… then what are they?
I wouldn’t go deeper since it will take HOURS. You get the idea. This is just the surface
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UW, uranium war
Btw, hello to all people, I decided that i need to learn english better and now i will write and read here regularly : D
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I know about it, but i want excactly to learn english
And translator sometimes translate wrong(
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Горынка Упорынка
Everything you just said 
Mind is blown, thumbs up 
Finally someone on the forum in the upper echelons of the game who knows what they talking about. Ill sit just sit back and grab the popcorn 
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i would like to add that in my experience of regular 8vs8, having a TOW teammate is almost as bad as drone teammate, if not worse.
I have yet to meet a TOW teammate that knows what he’s doing or keeping up with the dps of the rest of his team.
Dronners at least can use muninn cab to target an enemy, heat them to death with fatum too, or go the old fashion way of tesla drone that itself can target, then ram enemy with The Call wedges.
TOW? pfft. you’re either doing sniper build or severely crippled if a TOW somehow managed to hit you, or a cockpit booster TOW go out all the way to shotgun you out of pure spite. Other than that, if I see the same TOW guy on my team 3 times in a row and we already lost the last 2, it’s instant requeue for me.
TOW is in a relatively fine spot due to their potential to throw off CW meta, but that’s about it. If anything, they should have the ability to fly up and down so that they can get the helicopters owned.
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About TOW
It’s just toxic in 8v8. For example, fight in what i was annihilated by tows on focus. My team was annihilated too.
So, it is strong gun, what can be very toxic just because can do some(more) damage while you can’t see enemy. And i wouldn’t call it a weak, or useless weapon in 8v8.
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